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Dave wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
> > "Dave" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > >
> > > Dutch wrote:
> > >> "Dave" > wrote
> > >> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >> Dave wrote:
> > >> >> > wrote:
> > >> >> > > Dutch wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >> > Ants are social insects, similar to bees in terms of size and
> > >> >> > structure.
> > >> >> > Why do you label them "unsentient"? Is there not a benefit of the
> > >> >> > doubt
> > >> >> > in play here?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Based on DeGrazia's discussion of the evidence, I felt it was probably
> > >> >> reasonable to assume they were insentient. I haven't got the book with
> > >> >> me at the moment. When I get back to Sydney I can have a look and
> > >> >> discuss the evidence with you.
> > >> >
> > >> > OK. I'm afraid I have little to contribute to the subject though.
> > >> > Perhaps I will buy the DeGrazia book myself if research suggests
> > >> > he is a well respected authority because the topic is certainly
> > >> > interesting. I'm just saying that, to a layman like me, the way the
> > >> > bees behave seems to indicate some degree of conscious will.
> > >>
> > >> I find that a stretch. There's a huge gap between having pain receptors
> > >> or
> > >> some equivalent defense mechanism, and having conscious will. I am even
> > >> dubious that most people have it.
> > >
> > > Perhaps I got a bit carried away but the possibility that honey bees
> > > and
> > > ants have a conscious will does not seem to me like something we
> > > can dismiss out of hand. It's a subject I find interesting and I will
> > > look
> > > at it more closely. Right now I am not qualified to argue the case.
> >
> > The salient point here is that "sentience" is a misapplied term by ARAs, and
> > they use this misapplication to exclude themselves from guilt for complicity
> > in a whole myriad of potential animal suffering associated with their
> > consumer lifestyles. This enables them to keep applying the focus where they
> > believe it properly belongs, on those evil and misguided meat-eaters.
> >
> > >
> > >> >> Perhaps I should give them the benefit
> > >> >> of the doubt. But I don't think I'm going to give myself a guilt trip
> > >> >> about killing mosquitoes.
> > >> >
> > >> > No. I don't think you should give yourself guilt trips about killing
> > >> > any type of parasite.
> > >>
> > >> He just moved the goalposts again.
> >
> > Meaning he was challenged on ants so he tried using mosquitos as his
> > example,
>
> You're right. It was illegitimate.
>

What was illegitimate about it? It was a simple statement. I wasn't
abandoning my previous claim about ants, I was just giving another
example. It's not a question of "moving the goalposts". I can make more
than one claim.

> >a typical pro-ARA argument tactic