rick wrote:
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Leif Erikson wrote:
> >> Dave wrote:
> >> > rick wrote:
> >> > > "Dave" > wrote in message
> >> > > ups.com...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > rick wrote:
> >> > > >> "Dave" > wrote in message
> >> > > >> ups.com...
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > rick wrote:
> >> > > >> >> "Dave" > wrote in message
> >> > > >> >> oups.com...
> >> > > >> >> >
> >> > > >> >> > rick wrote:
> >> > > >> >> >> "Dave" > wrote in message
> >> > > >> >> >> oups.com...
> >> > > >> >>
> >> > > >> >>
> >> > > >> >> snippage...
> >> > > >> >>
> >> > > >> >>
> >> > > >> >> >> >
> >> > > >> >> >> > If you do not buy grain fed, chemically laced
> >> > > >> >> >> > meat
> >> > > >> >> >> > then
> >> > > >> >> >> > you
> >> > > >> >> >> > have
> >> > > >> >> >> > about the same impact upon the industries that
> >> > > >> >> >> > produce
> >> > > >> >> >> > it
> >> > > >> >> >> > as
> >> > > >> >> >> > vegans do.
> >> > > >> >> >> ======================
> >> > > >> >> >> Your logic is failing. I have an impact on the
> >> > > >> >> >> industry.
> >> > > >> >> >> I
> >> > > >> >> >> buy
> >> > > >> >> >> a product that directly competes with what loons
> >> > > >> >> >> rant
> >> > > >> >> >> about.
> >> > > >> >> >
> >> > > >> >> > Someone who stops eating beef will have to eat
> >> > > >> >> > something
> >> > > >> >> > else or go hungry. All food products are in
> >> > > >> >> > competition
> >> > > >> >> > with
> >> > > >> >> > each other to some degree.
> >> > > >> >> ==========================
> >> > > >> >> Someone who does not eat meat and never will has no
> >> > > >> >> impact
> >> > > >> >> on
> >> > > >> >> the
> >> > > >> >> meat industry they spew about.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > That is the point. They have no impact on the
> >> > > >> > industry. They
> >> > > >> > don't
> >> > > >> > provide the motive for treating animals that way
> >> > > >> > unlike
> >> > > >> > people
> >> > > >> > who
> >> > > >> > consume the cheapest meats available.
> >> > > >> ============================
> >> > > >> Yet they do nothing to change the industry the spew
> >> > > >> about.
> >> > > >> Having an impact for change means you have to
> >> > > >> participate.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Reduction is a type of change.
> >> > > ===========================
> >> > > You're missing the point.
> >> >
> >> > No it's you who are missing the point.
> >>
> >> Rick is correct: YOU are the one missing the point
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > > Since vegans do not and will not buy
> >> > > meat they aren't reducing their use of meat. Since they
> >> > > do
> >> > > participate, they have no impact.
> >> >
> >> > Their use of meat is less than it would be if they weren't
> >> > vegan.
> >> > By continuing to be vegan they are removing their
> >> > contribution
> >> > towards the commercial incentive to produce meat of any
> >> > kind.
> >>
> >> No. You are wrong.
> >>
> >> First of all, their withdrawal from the market for meat was a
> >> one-time
> >> effect.
> >
> > It is an ongoing effect. If they reversed their decision demand
> > would
> > increase.
> >
> >> Secondly, it was too small to be noticed.
> >
> > Individual consumer habits are barely noticed by the markets if
> > at all.
> >
> > Many people use this an excuse for not considering the impacts
> > the
> > products they buy have upon humans, animals and the
> > environment.
> > This is one of the reasons the planet is f***d up in some ways
> > and
> > a major weakness of the free market.
> >
> >> They removed their
> >> demand ONCE and once only; it does not have any continuing
> >> impact.
> >>
> >> If they were for some reason to abandon "veganism" and return
> >> to the
> >> market for meat products, that too would be too small to be
> >> noticed.
> >> "vegans" are even a very tiny minority with the broader
> >> vegetarian
> >> community. As a percentage of the population, they are
> >> doubtless less
> >> than one half of one percent.
> >
> > I don't entirely agree with veg*nism but I do admire veg*ns for
> > taking
> > some responsibility for their consumer habits. If everyone
> > followed
> > their example the world would be a much better place.
> =====================================
> ROTFLMAO That's a hoot!!! Tell us what those 'examples' are
> dave. Not eating meat does not automatically mean a lesser
> impact on animals or the environment! that's been the whole
> point I've been making all along. Now, if you can prove that it
> does, be my guest. No one ever has yet, maybe you'll be the
> first!

I don't entirely agree with veganism precisely because
I don't believe that all plant agriculture is necessarily better
for animals and the environment than traditional mixed
agriculture systems. I admire vegans for taking responsibility
for their own consumer habits and avoiding the products
they can not condone. If everyone did that the world would
be a much better place.