>I've kneaded by hand; I don't have time for it. Large bakeries
>have huge Hobart Mixers with big dough hooks. They don't take it out
>and knead it by hand. There must be some logic to this that someone is
>capable of verbalizing

Those bakers using machines understand the principles. of the KNEADING
PROCESS ..but unfortunately for you .IMO ..YOU DON'T...!

The logic of your failure is indeed simple...that is .you are
inflexible or stubborn , apprehensive , and impatient...

Inflexible...you are unwilling to try some ideas posted here

Apprehensive....you are worried that the dough is too wet that is why
you dump more flour that results in your problem

Impatient- you don't have the patience to get the feel of the dough by
hand by practicing hand kneading and relate that to the machine mxing
and conversely ....You want to make the dough .....ONLY with machines!

If you don't understand how the dough evolves from the flour and water
by doing it manually and getting the right feel about iit before you
use the mixers will be difficult for your inflexible mind to grasp the
basic principles of breadmaking.even if you have the state of the art
machineries to do the task.

Those three defects....Inflexibility, apprehensiveness, and
impatience...are the ones that you have to tackle first before ....you
try to obtain the solution to your 'simple 'problem

..That are the main faults that I find from some slow to learn
students when I was a part time teacher in the baking school....in
the past


If you are impatient, but inexperienced and demand the result to
come out consistent and perfect the first time you make a certain
dough recipe .you will never get what you want.

...Please take time to think and relate to your faulty experience the
guidance from many posters of your thread .

What is happening to you can be related to the Chinese saying...

..You want to drink my tea ,, then empty your cup first so I can pour my
brew into it...
That is the way it is...

If you insist in your way that literally your cup is full ( or you
think that you are already knowledgeable?) and don't want to decant
it as you think its as good ( or your methods is already the right one
) then this thread will end in a stalemate.....this thread will
perpetuate without you absorbing anything useful from it.

You want to profit from the posters ideas here.....Re-read the posts
and think...about it...

..Some ideas posted in the thread may not be the answer you are
looking for ..but they are related to your question ..... If and only
IF you exercise patience and think about it...you will realize that
all posts to this thread have important views that can help solve
your problem...