dh@. wrote:
> On 14 Jan 2006 05:50:01 -0800, wrote:
>
> wrote:
> >> i'm 25 and i've not eaten meat for nearly 10 years. I'm also not
> >> drinking milk at the moment and i've replaced it with soya milk in my
> >> diet. the reasons are ethical and economic, one of the only real powers
> >> we have is to with-hold our trade, and i refuse to support factory
> >> farms by buying milk. anyway, i'm preaching to the converted.
> >>
> >> the substance of my post is this: i'm tired. i'm tired of explaining to
> >> everyone who asks why i don't eat meat. tired of listening to everyone
> >> at work at every job i go to saying how "but we're designed to eat
> >> meat" or other such shit. i'm tired of always explaining how long i've
> >> been vegetarian for, whether i eat fish or not, why i don't agree with
> >> factory milk production, hormone treatment, antibiotics and artificial
> >> insemination.
> >>
> >> i'm sick of going round in circles with everyone whom i talk to on this
> >> topic. i'm sick of being "exposed" as a hypocrite as they inevitably
> >> ask me if i buy products from supermarkets who also trade in milk and
> >> meat.
> >>
> >> most of all i hate the way my inquisitors ask me with a smug grin like
> >> they're the first to have ever questioned me on my diet, beliefs or
> >> personal philosophy. No sir, i've had this EXACT conversation 6000
> >> times, forgive me if i don't put too much into it.
> >>
> >> anyone else?
> >
> >We do not eat meat for the same reason cited by you. We eat eggs from
> >cage free chickens
>
> Then you are doing something to contribute to decent lives for
> chickens, unlike if you didn't contribute to any.

Animals don't need humans in order to lead decent lives. It is true
that our desire to eat eggs causes more chickens to exist but these
chickens still require resources that could instead be utilized by
other animals. Farm animals are no more alive than wild animals.
>
> >and drink some organic milk
>
> What's that?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...Search&met a=
>
> >but mostly soy milk.
>
> · From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
> derived from grass raised animals.

Where do these "figures" come from? It is probably true that 1
serving of rice or soy grown using the standard commerical methods
results in more animal deaths than 1 serving of beef or milk
produced in the ideal way but I think you are massively exagerating the
difference.

> Grass raised animal products
> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat,

This claim seems plausible but beef also uses more land
per serving than soy or rice.

> and
> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·
>
> >As
> >you see, there are different degrees and paths to vegetarianism but the
> >common thread is our compassion for animals
>
> Your consumption of cage free eggs is NOT veg*nism,

Yes it is.

> but
> it DOES contribute to decent lives for chickens. What I consider
> to be an extremely legitimate complaint against "ethical" veg*ns,
> is that they NEVER appear to care about such things.

Without farming there would be no farmed animals not because
there would be no animals but because there would be no
animal farming.

> >and our revulsion with the
> >cruel and unsanitary practices of meat industry. Do not have your
> >problems with our friends who are not vegetarians. Maybe you have the
> >wrong kind of friends. It is no business of your co-workers how you
> >live and you do not need to discuss anything with them, unless they ask
> >you in a respectful manner. Most people who are not vegetarians are not
> >meat industry shills.
>
> LOL!!! I seriously doubt the "meat industry" pays anyone to post to
> ngs. I've tried to get some chicken producers to stick up for themselves,
> but they don't have any interest in all that. It would sure be nice if there
> were some though. Now on the other side: I could believe there are some
> veg*ns who are stupid enough to give people like Goo and Dutch something
> for the crap they contribute, but I don't believe any meat producers are doing
> anything like that.

Why would veg*ns want to pay those people to argue the case against
veg*nism?
>
> >You only find those on the internet but you do
> >not have to stay on this list where you will surely be attacked by meat
> >industry shills.
>
> LOL! It's sad. It's funny. It's a lie. And saddest, funniest, and worst of all:
> you might actually believe it.
>
> >This list is not for the tender hearted sensitive
> >type:-)