"Derek" > wrote
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:46:00 GMT, "Dutch" > wrote:
>>"Derek" > wrote
>>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:26:05 GMT, "Dutch" > wrote:
>>>>"Derek" > wrote
>>>>
>>>>> (Critic)
>>>>> Abstaining from meat doesn't meet with the vegan's moral
>>>>> requirement to not kill animals intentionally for food; animals
>>>>> still die for their food during crop production.
>>>>>
>>>>> This argument commits The Perfect Solution Fallacy
>>
>>The Fallacy is that veganism is a Perfect Solution, a "death-free
>>lifestyle".
>
> Vegans don't claim that their lifestyle is the perfect solution
> to the killing of animals in food production.

Yes, for the most part that is exactly what they believe. A few have gotten
burned and retreated to fallback positions but the outrageous moral
assumptions that accompanied the original belief tend to remain intact.

> Only your straw
> vegan claims that so he's easier to demolish. If you're only
> capable of dealing with the imaginary vegans inside your
> head, you're in the wrong place when trying to deal with the
> real vegans in the real World here.

Real World vegans display the attitudes and ideas I am attributing to them.

I've shown you comments
> from vegan web sites that deal with the problem of CDs, and
> once again you've snipped those comments away, only to
> proceed with trying to demolish your imaginary vegan again.
> That's not good enough, so until you address the real vegan
> your criticism of him has to be ignored.

The issue of collateral deaths is ignored or trivialized by vegans. It is
only ever raised as an issue by vegans in defensive mode in attempts to
justify their attitudes and attack their critics, just as you did.