Beach Runner wrote:

>
>
> usual suspect wrote:
>
>> B-cup Bob wrote:
>>
>>> Excuse the top posting. It was made for you to be easy to find.
>>>
>>> For your information.
>>>
>>> Time December 5,, page 63
>>
>>
>>
>> It refers to the German study I cited previously:
>> http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/new...p?docID=525507
>>
>> Here's the BLURB from TIME (dummy):
>>
>> ACUPUNCTURE There is growing scientific evidence that
>> acupuncture, a pillar of Chinese medicine, can relieve many
>> kinds of pain, but there's no clear agreement about how it
>> works. That was underscored by a German study of migraines: it
>> found that inserting needles at various acupuncture points in
>> the body relieved pain just as effectively as inserting them in
>> the points that are supposed to affect migraines. Both therapies
>> cut the number of episodes more than 50% over a 12-week period;
>> a control group that did not receive either treatment continued
>> to suffer as before.
>> http://www.time.com/time/archive/pre...134763,00.html


No it meant traditional points were as effective as migraine specific
points. But non specific points had no effect. Read it again. You
missed the point.
>>
>> So you ****ed it up yet again (no surprise).
No I did not. As explained above.

Let me explain it to you,
>> eighth-wit. There were three groups. One group received "real"
>> acupuncture. The second group received fake acupuncture. The third
>> group was the control -- they received neither. The group receiving
>> fake treatment had similar results as the group that received "real"
>> acupuncture. So there is NO benefit above and beyond the placebo (fake
>> acupuncture) effect.
I'm aware of placebo, fake effect.
>>
>> That means fake acupuncture is *just as beneficial* as "real"
>> acupuncture -- or that "real" acupuncture is *just as bogus* as fake
>> acupuncture. Take your pick.
>>
>> Acupuncture is only as beneficial as any other touch therapy, as I
>> suggested before. Read the links to the abstracts about studies
>> regarding laughter, pets, and music. Those are much safer because they
>> don't require some nitwitted true believer to impale re-used needles
>> into patients.
>>
Actually it wasn't according to this study. Read it again.
>>
>>> usual suspect wrote:
>>>
>>>> Beach Runner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In the recent issue of Newsweek
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not on their site or in the issue I received this past week.
>>>>
>>>>> it rported that both traditional and treatment for specified
>>>>> migrade headaches worked compared to a placebo.
>>>>
Non specific point are the placebo. You may not like it but that was the
only way for the participants to be fooled.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not according to the latest article I could find about migraines and
>>>> acupunctu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Migraine headache sufferers who use acupuncture get no more pain
>>>> relief than those who undergo a sham treatment.
>>>>
>>>> But they do get relief.
>>>>
>>>> That is the result of a randomized, multi-center trial, one of
>>>> the largest and most rigorous studies yet to examine
>>>> acupuncture's effectiveness for migraine, the study's German
>>>> authors report.
>>>>
>>>> Both treatments reduced the number of days that patients
>>>> experienced moderate to severe pain, with more than half of each
>>>> treatment group reporting at least a 50 percent reduction in
>>>> migraine attacks.
>>>>
>>>> Whether patients received real acupuncture or a mock procedure,
>>>> however, their outcomes were better than those receiving no
>>>> treatment at all.
>>>> http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/new...p?docID=525507
>>>>
>>>> See also Newsweek's "reporting" on CAM:
>>>> http://www.quackwatch.org/04Consumer.../newsweek.html
>>>>
>>>>> They don't know why but the results defied chance, the studies were
>>>>> set up according to the scientific method.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't comprehend the scientific method.
>>>>
>>>>> Acupuncture should be an area of research.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's been thoroughly researched. Like other touch therapies, it has
>>>> limited value in reducing stress and anxiety. It hasn't been show,
>>>> though, to be a cure for anything. Other therapies have demonstrated
>>>> a similar measure of benefit for reducing stress and improving
>>>> "quality of life" for patients of various illnesses:
>>>>

No, it is an ancient art. Even surgery has been performed under
accupuncture. It demands more research. BTW, though it doesn't meet
your standards, it was listed as one of the 50 major medical
breakthroughs in the last year. So scientists/jounalists disagree with you.

>>>> LAUGHTER
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/e2mn
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/e2mv
>>>>
>>>> MUSIC
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/e2nb
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/e2nf
>>>>
>>>> ANIMALS/PETS
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/e2nn
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/e2ns
>>>>
>>>>> Other studies have shown similar effects
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hogwash. The entire page below, from a pro-complementary and
>>>> "alternative medicine" center, is worth reading. Here's what it says
>>>> about acupunctu
>>>>
>>>> Of these approaches, acupuncture is the most prominent therapy
>>>> to promote qi flow along the meridians. Acupuncture has been
>>>> extensively studied and has been shown to be effective in
>>>> treating some conditions, particularly certain forms of pain.1
>>>> However, its mechanism of action remains to be elucidated. The
>>>> main threads of research on acupuncture have shown regional
>>>> effects on neurotransmitter expression, but have not validated
>>>> the existence of an "energy" per se.
>>>> http://nccam.nih.gov/health/backgrounds/energymed.htm
>>>>
>>>>> while practictioners have made wild claims.
>>>>

It means they don't understand it yet. Probably a lot of claims are pseudo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's the whole problem with it -- it's NOT a scientific practice.
>>>> Its effects are identical to those measured in laughter, music, and
>>>> pets, as noted above; those other forms of therapy certainly don't
>>>> involve being poked with needles that may be contaminated.
>>>>
>>>> The last issue is germane since most acupuncturists re-use needles.
>>>> You won't be allowed to donate blood after you receive acupuncture
>>>> unless your acupuncturist can confirm and validate he or she used
>>>> sterile needles (some blood centers won't accept ANY donors who've
>>>> received acupuncture). This should be of further concern you since
>>>> you have a Chicken Little complex about vCJD (and normal CJD is
>>>> probably more common in Florida than the rest of the country given
>>>> the elderly population) -- can you sterilize prions, dummy?
>
>
> I've only seen sterile needles. Prove it. I just posted news no
> insults I certainly would only accept sterile needles.
>
> I've already stated vCJD is minor compared to excess meat consumption.
> But then we don't know the full extent due to the long gestation period.
> I bet many vCJD patients were labeled with other diseases.
>
> I pointed out an article from News week. I pointed it out to you since
> you were unable to find it. You turned it into another yet insult of
> me, yet Newsweek posted it as on the greatest contributions to medicine
> this year. Frankly, I think the jury is out.