"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> usual suspect wrote:
>> Phil Odox wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Animals by the millions die in the production of your
>>>>>> veggies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that the numbers are that high,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They are.
>>>>
>>>>> and even if they
>>>>> were, they didn't have to die. Vegetables and fruit can be
>>>>> grown
>>>>> without killing animals,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yet they are.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't believe you, and until you produce some evidence
>>> supporting
>>> your claim I have every reason to continue disbelieving you.
>>
>>
>> You keep snipping it, ****:
>
> Still throwing sticks? Can't you do better than this?
>
>> Davis proposes
>
> a bunch of numbers based on guesswork. Provide facts, not
> guesswork.
============================
ROTFLMAO This from a liar that has never presented any facts to
back up his claims. What a hoot!!
>
>>>>> so if one has a moral conscience and
>>>>> can't bring themselves to intentionally kill them,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Causing collateral death or injury through personal
>>>> consumption doesn't
>>>> exculpate a vegetarian consumer from any moral guilt for
>>>> them.
>>>
>>>
>>> What guilt?
>>
>>
>> The guilt you should have if actual animal suffering is a
>> criterion for action. You're so hung up on hypotheticals that
>> you refuse to concede
>> that animals DO die for your diet even though you don't eat
>> them.
>
> When have I ever refused to concede that animals occasionally
> die
> in the course of vegetable and fruit production?
=========================
Right there fool. It's not occasional, it's routine, systematic
and deliberate, and in the millions upon millions. Why so much
dishonesty on your part, hypocrite? Afraid to accept the truth
because it blows your inane house of cards down?
>
>
> Some
>> "solution" -- you can't even address the nature of the
>> problem.
>>
> I will if you explain it.
>
>>> I have no moral guilt over them.
>>
>>
>> Then eat them.
>
> Why?
>
>
>> They're dead already from pesticides, being run over, sliced
>> and diced, etc.
>>
> Those aren't good reasons to eat meat.
>
>>> They don't have to die.
>>
>>
>> They do.
>
> No, they don't. Vegetables and fruits can be grown without
> killing animals. Your shame wont let you admit to that fact,
> and by god does it show.
>
>
> If you think killing animals is wrong, you're culpable for
>> their deaths.
>
> Non sequitur. For example; I think that the killing of humans
> for oil is wrong, so how does using oil make me culpable for
> their deaths? It doesn't: the conclusion doesn't logically
> follow from the premiss.
>
>> Fortunately, I'm here to clarify your muddled thinking.
>
> Your earlier non sequitur shows you're not in a position to
> put yourself forward as a clear-thinker.
>
>
> As
>> I wrote above, your argument is specious on the grounds that
>> your real objection is people eating meat
>
> Since when did you put yourself forward as my spokesman?
>
>
> -- you don't really give a **** about
>> animals.
>
> Trying to rank me alongside those like yourself makes clear
> only one thing; you realise that your position as an animal-
> hater is a loathsome position and lower than mine, and you're
> trying your best to drag me down to that level.
======================
You're already far below us, fool. You see, we acknowledge that
animals die for our diets and lifestyle. You still try to
pretend that they don't for yours, and even make all kinds of
excuses for your actions. Actions that cause massive animal
deaths. The hypocrisy of your position is apparent and should be
embarrassing for you, killer.
>
> <cut>
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html
http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf
Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm
To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html