"Phil Odox" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Phil Odox" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>
>>>>Phil Odox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Animals by the millions die in the production of your
>>>>>>veggies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't believe that the numbers are that high,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and even if they
>>>>>were, they didn't have to die. Vegetables and fruit can be
>>>>>grown
>>>>>without killing animals,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yet they are.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I don't believe you, and until you produce some evidence
>>>supporting
>>>your claim I have every reason to continue disbelieving you.
>>>
> I'm waiting for that evidence, Rick.
>
>>>
>>>>>so if one has a moral conscience and
>>>>>can't bring themselves to intentionally kill them,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Causing collateral death or injury through personal
>>>>consumption doesn't
>>>>exculpate a vegetarian consumer from any moral guilt for
>>>>them.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What guilt? I have no moral guilt over them. They don't have
>>>to die.
>>
>> ===========================
>> Yet they do
>
> But they don't *have* to, and that's the point you're trying
> so desperately to run away from. You wont do it, and that's
> why you're on a vegetarian news board taking pot shots at
> those who make the ethical choices you're incapable of making.
>
> , at your behest, hypocrite...
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>the best and
>>>>>only option is to eat vegetables instead.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bullshit.
>>>
>>>Not at all. Why would a vegan choose a diet that kills animals
>>>when
>>>a vegetarian diet means that animals don't have to die for
>>>one's food?
>>>Would you buy and eat the flesh of humans, or would you choose
>>>a diet
>>>that didn't have to kill any humans at all?
>>>=====================================
>>
>> Because no vegan here has made that choice
>
> I've made that choice, for one, and I've no doubt that others
> have made that same choice. It isn't all about diet for me
> because I'm young and fit and naturally tend to eat only the
> wholesome foods anyway. My concept of rights is what lies
> behind
> my reasoning to be a vegetarian.
=============================
LOL No it isn't because you haven't thought it all out. You
care nothing about causing unnecessary death and suffering to
animals for something as unneeded as your entertainment,
hypocrite. Why should anyone believe that your diet makes a
difference. You've done nothing to measure what foods you eat
cause the most/least harm because you have your simple rule for
your simple mind, 'eat no meat.'
>
> Where meat eaters are concerned, their most glaringly obvious
> error is to assume sentient beings with interests can be harmed
> and killed for our own ends simply because they fall outside
> our
> class system.
=[=======================
LOL Wow, what a coincidence, that's exactly what you do too!
This error is grounded on the false assumption that
> because animals fall outside our class system it is morally
> permissible to cause them harm, even though this assumption
> cannot
> be supported logically and merely takes for granted or assumes
> that which it sets out to prove.
================================
Then why do youmake this error, hypocrite?
Such question begging when used
> as a replacement for any rational argument only serves to
> demonstrate weak thinking and a tacit leaning toward racism.
===============================
LOL Ah yes, next it will be nazis, right? Animals have NO
rights, and never will. And, you even prove that fool. Youn are
here, contributing to the massive death and suffering of animals
for no more reason than your selfish want of entertainment. Your
entire consumer-oriented, conveninec-driven lifestyle is built on
the dead bodies of animals. Animals killed because of YOUR
choices.
Those
> who look beyond the mere utility of beings and take on a
> responsible
> position toward them can argue that such an obligation infers a
> right against being used as a mere utility.
=================================
Meaningless babble, when spoken by a hypocrite such as you...
The animals you kill for your diet suffer far more horrendous,
brutal, and inhumane deaths than the animals I eat experience.
If humans are exempt
> from being used as such on the grounds that we must preserve
> the
> concept of rights on a philosophical level, or because we can
> suffer pain and the loss of our lives, excluding sentient
> animals
> from this exemption calls into question the validity of our own
> claim and whether preserving that concept is a valid pursuit. I
> believe that it is, and I believe it’s essential to demonstrate
> a loyalty to that concept by acknowledging animal rights.
===============================
No fool, you neither acknowledge animals rights or demonstrate
any loyalty to it. Your hypocrisy is too evident..
>
> Another glaringly obvious error is to assume that our role as
> beneficiaries of animal exploitation includes a requirement to
> produce more benefactors on the grounds that had we not been
> their
> beneficiaries, then such benefactors would not have been born
> to
> enjoy the welfare we provide them. The error here is to assume
> that
> said benefactors are being brought into a better state than a
> previous
> one, when nothing can be said about that previous state of
> non-being
> to make such a judgement.
>
> These fundamental errors in thinking when used to justify the
> deaths
> of animals must be challenged, because while they persist, our
> decision to kill them on those basis' is immoral.
===============================
You should know all about fundamental errors in thinking fool,
it's all you have...
> <cut>
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.html
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html
http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
http://www.biotech-info.net/deadly_chemicals.html
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/4-2art1.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/environmen...ing_annex1.pdf
Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm
To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html