Beach Runner wrote:
>>>> That's the issue, dummy, and **** you for arrogantly thinking you
>>>> corner the market on such care for animals.
>>>
>>> I hardly corner the market. Veg*n movements are growing.
>>
>> Haha, you wish. Vegans and "serious vegetarians" are a stagnant
>> demographic and they make up less than two-percent of the US population.
>>
>> With the number of serious vegetarians stagnating at less than
>> 2% according to some estimates, the market potential may be just
>> too small, though, for a QSR selling to a mass market.
>> http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=4949
>>
>> You might be so (counter-)culturally isolated that you think everyone
>> is like your little circle. "Veg*n movements" are self-marginalizing
>> and exclusivist, not exactly the best things for growth.
>
> I see at my local store an "Organic" section,

Non sequitur. That's not a "veg-n movement."

> they have fresh squeezed
> carrot and orange juice.

And I bet it's purchased in greater quantity by those who eat at least
some meat than by those who eat none.

> They have many items that are labeled
> vegetarian or vegan. This didn't use to exist.

That's not a sign of a growing movement any more than "fat free" or "no
cholesterol" are signs of growing movements. It's just a label used to
appeal to a segment of the population. Your local store has ALWAYS had
foods suitable for veg-ns, it's just the marketing to them that's changed.

> The economic discussion you ignored,

I didn't ignore it. I was amused by your prattle, but thought it wasn't
worth dignifying with a reply.

> I had actually hoped you would
> engage in the differences and the concept that there are many people
> with values and idealism, and capitalism and socialism in pure forms do
> not exist. Both need to be tempered.

I disagree.

> You appear to love capitalism as
> a value in itself.

I would say that I simply value freedom, and that I see no freedom at
all in socialism or what you might call "tempered capitalism." Let me
give you a couple quick examples that show how free markets are tempered
by consumer demands.

First, people individually or collectively can do business with those
whose values they share and avoid commerce with those whose practices
they abhor. That works when dealing with companies one may not like for
whatever reason, such as Monsanto or McDonald's, or with an entire
nation, such as when individuals chose not to travel to South Africa or
invest in companies doing business there during Apartheid.

Second, people can choose whether or not they even participate in a
given market or choose among its substitutes. Vegetarianism itself can
be such a check on a given market, such as when someone objects to the
way livestock are treated. Such people can also resort to alternative
markets like small family farms, eating only what they hunt or catch, etc.

Free markets allow free people to act freely. Command economies -- fully
or partially planned -- don't.

> There are thousands of vegetarian groups on Yahoo.

Not a sign of a growing movement. In fact, look at the nyms used on them
and you'll find a lot of the same people posting to different groups.

> A new successful
> vegetarian restaurant near me that does a brisk business.

Not a sign of a growing movement, just a sign of a successful niche
business.

> You probably saw them on the news last year

No, I didn't.