On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:05:19 -0700, "Dutch" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote
>> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:51:40 -0700, "Dutch" > wrote:
>[..]
>
>>>>>this is a vegan group, a google search under animals and learning will
>>>>>show lots of great info. Derek is obviously anti-vgan.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. I'm a vegan and have been for nigh on 15
>>>> years for ethical reasons. I see animals as rights-
>>>> holders but don't believe they can experience
>>>> emotions.
>>>
>>>How do you define an emotion?
>>
>> A human experience.
>
>Which dictionary does that come from? You appear to be inventing a
>limitation to support your conclusion.

Rather, you appear to be widening something you don't
fully understand to support yours.

>>>What is happening in a dog who is shown his
>>>favorite play-toy when his head and tail become erect and and he pants and
>>>dances around in circles by the door?
>>
>> Something unemotional.
>
>If emotion is an expression of spontaneous, without conscious thought,
>mental and physiological excitement, and it is, then the dog is exhibiting
>emotion.

The key word there is "exhibiting", which is something
solely dependent on your sentiment rather than logic.
Unless you can find a way of extracting meaningful
information from the dog without resorting to sloppy
sentiment, any statement about that dog will be an
ipse dixit.

>>>If that is not anticipation of a
>>>familiar desirable activity AND an expression of emotion then what is it?
>>
>> Conditioning.
>
>Conditioning explains why animals react the way they do to certain stimuli,
>not a description of a specific mental and physiological state.

Bullseye!