>You mean there is a thieves market where everyone wants to buy aged
>pu'rh but can't because of the fraud. Why does it even exist if
>everybody knows that. If you aren't shopping with the locals then you
>are in the wrong place. I know it is a market and not retail. Price
>gouging is the norm but that is just the starting point. I just don't
>completely buy the story that the Chinese rip each other off because at
>some point the seller needs the buyer and vice versa. I suspect that
>the real problem with aged puer is that there is no market just
>speculation. If nobody thought a tea worth drinking so many years ago
>then only a fool would buy it today at higher prices.

See, but one can't assume that because someone is Chinese that they
know jack about tea. A good example of this is tonight I had a group
of my students come over to my house and drink tea (age ranges from
23-28). Five out of ten of them had never heard of pu'er and only one
of them had actually drank it before. I'm not exactly sure which
locals you're talking about. The Chinese do like to drink tea, yes,
but it's not as much in style as it is to eat at McDonalds around these
parts. In fact, I think many people here on RFDT have more knowledge
about tea, including yourself, than the average Chinese person that
even consumes it on a daily basis. It's just hard to explain.
Remember, this is a communist society so most shops have little
understanding as to how markets should work or how market competition
should work. You can go to 10 different shops, ask about a certain
tea, and get 10 competely different prices probably ranging from
somewhere near what the tea is supposed to be worth upwards to 500 or
600 yuan more expensive...if that makes sense. Unless you are buying
wholesale, you will get cheated if you don't know what you're doing.

Is there a market where people rip each other off....yes, that would be
Fangcun or any tea market or any teashop. I can only think of one
place around here where you can buy real aged pu'er and it's from a guy
that is a collector; probably 99 percent, and Seb will agree with me on
this one, of the pu'er on the market is not older than 2 or 3 years.
Basically, the only way you can keep from being ripped off is to have a
good knowledge about the tea that you want to buy; knowing the boss
also helps.

It's just so hard to explain...damnit, hop on a plane and hang out with
me for an afternoon or something and I'll show you! hehe.