"Rupert" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> "Rupert" > wrote in message
snip...
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, the only fact you provided was that beef cattle
>> >> > start
>> >> > out
>> >> > on
>> >> > pasture. I asked for a reference on this.
>> >> ===========
>> >> Really? I didn't see any such request. Try USDA fool...
>> >> "...All cattle start out eating grass; three-fourths of
>> >> them
>> >> are
>> >> "finished" (grown to maturity) in feedlots..."
>> >> http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets...able/index.asp
>> >>================
>> Dodge noted, rupert....
>>
>>
>
> What dodge? Thank you for the reference.
> ===============
Yet you continue to spew your ignorant propaganda....
snip...
"Factory-farming" sounds like a pretty
>> > reasonable
>> > description to me. I don't need to point you to all the
>> > descriptions of
>> > it in the literature.
>> =====================
>> Not literature you fool, propaganda.
>>
>
> No, philosophical literature.
================
"philosophical literature" doesn't discuss factory farming fool.
Propaganda spew does....
>
>>
>> You claimed crop production was more deserving of
>> > the title "factory-farming". Fine. The onus is on you to
>> > prove
>> > it.
>> > =======================
>> Yet you've been shown over and over how crop production is far
>> more "factory" than meat production.
>
> No, I haven't.
>
>> The onus is on you to prove
>> your ignorant claims. You've made many wide claims, and as
>> yet
>> have never backed ANY o them up. Why is that killer? Too
>> stupid, or you just don't have anything?
>>
>
> I have backed up the claims I've made.
=================
LOL Where fool? Provide some sources other than because you say
so! You haven't backed up anything, hypocrite.
snip...
>> >>
>> >
>> > I have pointed out that intensively reared animals suffer
>> > considerably.
>> ================
>> And you have continued to refuse to provide any PROOF of this
>> statement, fool. Again, why is that? Too stupid, or you just
>> don't have anything?
>>
>
> I've provided some references in my reply to Rudy.
==================
Then it shouldn't be hard to repost them eh fool?
>
>>
>> > I have pointed out that most animal food production requires
>> > more plant
>> > production than plant food production.
>> ======================
>> And again, you've been told that there is NO requirment to
>> feed
>> crops to animals.
>>
>
> Not in every case, no.
> ==============
In no case, dolt. The 'requirment' isn't there.
>>
>> And I have linked to an article
>> > which discusses Davis' ruminant-pasture model of food
>> > production, and
>> > compares it to a vegan model.
>> =====================
>> An ignorant propaganda piece that means nothing. Provide real
>> data, rom real sources, killer.
>>
>
> If you have specific criticisms to make of the article, make
> them.
=================
It's too stupid to even work with. But bing that, why is it that
that is the ONLY source you seem to be able to find?
Can't find any independent, reliable, non-activist sources?
>
>>
>> >
>> > If you feel there's a contention I've made which isn't
>> > adequately
>> > supported by all of this, tell me what it is.
>> =================
>> Every thing you have said so far, fool. You have NEVER backed
>> up
>> ANY of your ignorant spew...
>>
>
> False.
===============
True. Your 'arguments' aren't proof, killer...
snip...
>> > It's also been proven that factory-farmed animals live lives
>> > with a
>> > great deal of misery and suffering in them,
>> ====================
>> Really? Wheb did you post that proof, fool? Never!
>>
>
> It's been proven. Not necessarily by me. But see the references
> I gave
> in my reply to Rudy.
================
Provide your references, fool....
>
snip...
>> >> >
>> >> > What complete ban on all meats?
>> >> =================
>> >> Then you do eat some meats, eh?
>> >
>> > No.
>> ==================
>> Then as I said, there is a complete ban on ALL meats....
>>
>
> That's a funny way of saying "I don't eat any meat". But I
> don't eat
> any meat, no.
================
Then it's a total bam on meat. You claimed otherwise, then
proved yourself to be lying. Thanks, fool...
>
>>
>> >
>> >> Again, you have failed to answer
>> >> the question. Why the complete ban/avoidance/whatever you
>> >> want
>> >> to call it, of ALL meats?
>> >>
>> >
>> > You're asking me why I don't eat meat? I don't particularly
>> > want to,
>> > and I don't see any reason why I should.
>> ======================
>> Nobody has said that you hae to fool. All we;re doing is
>> pointing out the idiocy of your so-called minimization based
>> solely on a simple rule for your simple mind.
>>
>
> Why is it idiotic? I'm trying to minimize my contribution to
> the
> suffering of animals. If you have any suggestions for how I can
> do it
> better, I'm happy to hear them.
======================
You've been given some. You reuse to read them appaently. Or
you're too stupid to understand...
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you have some evidence that the production of the meat
>> >> > you
>> >> > eat
>> >> > causes fewer deaths than the production of vegetables?
>> >> > ==========================
>> >> SUre, come on down and see them. You can even pet them if
>> >> you
>> >> like. They are pasture raised, no hormones, no
>> >> antibiotics,
>> >> no
>> >> feed crops. They are not confined, though they do have a
>> >> 3-sided barn for shelter when they want. The chickens next
>> >> door
>> >> run freely through our back yard, and again, then do have a
>> >> coop,
>> >> but are left to roam on their own.
>> >> The beef I eat from these animals replaces 100s of 1000s o
>> >> calories that YOU get from mono-culture factory farming. I
>> >> count
>> >> the number of animals daths for my meat by 100s of meals
>> >> per
>> >> death. You're lucky if you an say 100s of deaths per meal.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I would be interested to know where you got that last figure
>> > from.
>> ================
>> Read the data fool. read about voles per acre.
>>
>
> What data?
===================
Yep, you really ae too stupid to understand...
>
>>
>> >
>> > Pasture forage production does involve the deaths of some
>> > animals. You
>> > would have to take those into account as well. There is some
>> > discussion
>> > of the issue in the article I linked to.
>> =================
>> And those would be what? Care to tell us?
>>
>
> Sorry, what do you mean by "those"?
================
All the extra deaths you claim, fool..
>
>>
>> >
>> > But sure, maybe you are in a position where you can
>> > ethically
>> > eat some
>> > meat. Fine. More power to you.
>> ======================
>> There is no 'ethics' involved in eating meat fool! If there
>> wee,
>> based on animal death and suffering in total numbers, then you
>> fail miserably!
>>
>
> Can you demonstrate this?
================
You prove it very nicely with every inane post, hypocrite.
Thanks for even more proof...
>
snip...
>> >
>> > Most animals do require crops to be grown to feed them,
>> ======================
>> No ool, they do not 'require' crops to be fed to them...
>>
>>
>> and most animal
>> > food production does require more plant production than
>> > plant
>> > food
>> > production. There are exceptions.
>> ======================
>> Nio fool, again there is no requirment....
>>
>
> Well, most animal food production does actually *involve* more
> plant
> production than plant food production.
=====================
And your citations for this data are where?
I don't think it's stretching
> language too much to say it requires it. The way it's actually
> done, it
> requires it. I'm afraid I'm not very clear on whether there's
> any
> significant point you wanted to make here.
==================
Only that you are lying, again, as usual. There is no
requirment. I guess that's just too simple for your simple mind,
eh killer?
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> and I have linked to an
>> >> > article that discusses Davis' model of ruminant-pasture
>> >> > food
>> >> > production
>> >> > and compares it with a vegan model. You, on the other
>> >> > hand,
>> >> > have never
>> >> > supported your contention that it is possible to cause
>> >> > less
>> >> > suffering
>> >> > than that caused by a vegan diet by eating some meat. You
>> >> > might
>> >> > be
>> >> > right in this, but you have never proven it, or even
>> >> > tried
>> >> > to
>> >> > support
>> >> > it with any data.
>> >> =========================
>> >> Yes, I have killer. Many times, and long before you
>> >> arrived.
>> >> But then, you should know that, since afterall, you did all
>> >> that
>> >> research, right killer?
>> >>
>> >
>> > You really are quite bizarre. You think that somehow my
>> > claim
>> > to have
>> > made an informed decision to become vegan entails that I
>> > should
>> > have
>> > gone through all the Usenet archives to find out what
>> > arguments
>> > you
>> > have offered in the past? If you want to convince me, just
>> > present me
>> > with the arguments.
>> ======================
>> Dodge noted fool.
>>
>
> What dodge? It's a reasonable request, isn't it? Shouldn't we
> be
> talking about your dodge?
====================
You've done NOTHING to make an informed decision on fool, that's
the point! All you have is your simple rule for your simple
mind, 'eat no meat.' Nothing else. You annot support you
contentions, delusions, and outright lys, hypocrite
snip..
>>
>> >
>> > Where's my proof of what?
>> ================
>> Of everything you have claimed so-far....
>>
>
> I've repeated it quite a number of times. Read my previous
> posts.
> ========================
You've repeated YOURSELF, fool. That is not proof! Post some
citations, or continue to be branded as the ignorant fool that
you have proven yourself to be so far, killer.
snip...
>> >
>> > No, I couldn't. My family would still use the computer and
>> > pay
>> > for the
>> > internet connection. The amount of suffering caused would be
>> > the same.
>> ========================
>> ROTFLMAO Then how do you make any difference by banning meat?
>> You really are just too stupid for this, aen't you. Afterall,
>> it's the same argument, killer.
>>
>
> By my not eating meat, less financial support is provided for
> cruel
> farming practices. That isn't the case here.
=====================
It's exactly the same fool. Waving your hands doesn't make the
unnecessary death and suffering go away for your selfish
entertainment.
snip...
>> >> > I'm sorry, I'm not following you here. I didn't read a
>> >> > few
>> >> > propaganda
>> >> > sites, I read a few philosophy books.
>> >> ==============================
>> >> ROTFLMAO And what data did they provide for you?
>> >> Obviously
>> >> none!
>> >>
>> >
>> > Wrong.
>> ================
>> Then provide the 'data' that they provided you, fool. Should
>> be
>> easy, right killer?
>>
>
> I've given the references.
====================
No, you have not, killer. Post your citations, or admit your are
the bufoon you prove you are...
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I don't see how you've refuted my
>> >> > claim that I obtained some information and decided on the
>> >> > basis
>> >> > of it
>> >> > that veganism would reduce my contribution to animal
>> >> > suffering.
>> >> =====================
>> >> Because you have yet to support that claim with any data,
>> >> fool.
>> >
>> > Also wrong.
>> ==================
>> No, true. All you've done so far is make claims. You have
>> yet
>> to provide any proof for any of them.
>>
>
> No, actually, it's wrong.
==================
No, actually it's right. You've provided zero citations or your
ignorant claims...
>
>>
>> >
>> >> You claimed you cause ewer animals to suffer and die.
>> >> Prove
>> >> it!
>> >>
>> >
>> > I gave my arguments once again above.
>> =================
>> No fool, you didn't. Provide your proof!
>>
>
> I've repeated the arguments enough times. Read my posts.
=================
Arguments are not proof killer. man, you really are this stupid,
aren't you. Must be your diet....
snip...
>> > I have supported the claim. I've even linked to an article
>> > which has
>> > got a few numbers in it.
>> =======================
>> No fool, you have not provided anything. One ppopaganda
>> article
>> isn't proof.
>>
>
> I have provided something, and if you want to dismiss the
> article, I
> think you should address the arguments contained in it.
> =======================
Your article is not proof of your claims fool. Provide your
citations, hypocrite.
snip...
>> >> > I believe I have a moral obligation to minimize my
>> >> > contribution
>> >> > to
>> >> > animal suffering.
>> >> ==================
>> >> Yet are not doing that, and have failed to prove you even
>> >> try.
>> >>
>> >
>> > How about an argument for why I'm not doing that?
>> ===========================
>> Why an 'argument?' You prove it with each and every inane
>> post
>> to usenet, killer.
>>
>
> Well, I'm not convinced of that, for the reasons I've given.
===============
Of course you aren't. Your brainewashing won't allow it!
snip...
>> > I see. You refuse to actually present the suggestion or
>> > provide
>> > a link
>> > to it, but the burden is still on me to go through the
>> > usenet
>> > archives
>> > and find it. Well, I have had a look, and I may have another
>> > one. But
>> > do you have any particular reason for not just presenting
>> > the
>> > suggestion? I've asked you quite a few times now.
>> ====================
>> Look fool. You made a crap-load of claims, none of which you
>> have ever backed up with any data. When you do that, come on
>> back. Until then, you're just another ignorant vegan wannabe
>> that is too stupid, and too ignorant to know what they are
>> talking about...
>>
>
> And until you provide some arguments, you haven't given me any
> reason
> to change my views.
=======================
I provide proof, not arguments fool. Try it sometime, killer...
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Something YOU have no control over. You focus on
>> >> >> what others are doing because it is far easier than
>> >> >> actually
>> >> >> doing anything in YOUR life to make a real difference.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Yeah. Right. Whatever you say. As I say, I'll be
>> >> > interested
>> >> > to
>> >> > hear any
>> >> > suggestions you have for how I can make more of a
>> >> > difference
>> >> > than I
>> >> > already have. But I'm beginning to suspect you're more
>> >> > interested in
>> >> > just tossing out insults.
>> >> ====================
>> >> And you'e more interested in remaining an ignorant,
>> >> brainwashed
>> >> loon, eh?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Oh, for heaven's sake. Why don't you just provide some
>> > suggestions?
>> > It's pathetic.
>> =================
>> Why don't you provide some proof for your claims, fool.
>> THAT'S
>> what is pathetic...
>> Especially when you snip out tons of data that tells you you
>> have
>> been lying....
>>
>
> I'm sorry, can you link to the post I snipped that contained
> all this
> data?
================
ROTFLMAO SO you can snip it all again? What a hoot!!!
>
>>
>> >
>> > [rest deleted]
>> >
>