jeff wrote:

> Paul,
>
> It seems that I'm getting very valid points from both sides. Haven't
> pruned anything yet. I suppose in the end it's a judgement call. My vines
> are pretty close together, and eventually conjestion will be a concern. At
> the moment it's not a problem, but the season is young. I did pinch
> clusters already, however, to focus potassium and energy into remaining
> clusters.
>
> I don't have a huge vineyard. It's easy to maintain. Therefore, the other
> option is to prune un fruiting shoots, and keep nipping off every new
> shoot that comes along throughout the season, forcing all energy into
> remaining shoots.
>
> The question then is...will the energy go into fruit? or remaining shoot
> length?
>
> I read, in General Viticulture, that for proper photosynthetic energy, one
> cluster needs on average, about 24 leaves. If I was to control shoots, yet
> retain the same number of leaves per cluster, perhaps that would help.
> Counting leaves in a vineyard, however, can be labour intensive, and
> impossible to keep up with.
>
> Jeff

Jeff, where are you located? What are you growing? How long do your shoots
normally grow during a normal growing season?

After a few seasons you too will be an "Expert" or at least have your own
opinions.

Keep us informed of your discoveries and share any lessons learned.

Paul


>
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
> ...
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Remove them. You'll have PLENTY of foilage. Right now those shoots are
>>> a DRAIN on the plant as they grow. Come August you won't even remember
>>> they were there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> In my original response I assumed that he was cordon spur pruning but he
>> indicated this is not the case and he is cane pruning. I do not use this
>> system so I can not talk from experience but it SEEMS that:
>>
>> IF, he has excessive vigor and IF the leaves will not shade fruit or
>> nodes that will become shoots next year he may NEED a drain for the
>> excessive
>> vigor. The big word is "IF"
>>
>> It seems to me that if he has very high vigor and IF he removes the non
>> fruitful shoots, then the energy is going to go into providing more
>> growth vigor for the existing shoots INSTEAD of putting that energy into
>> the fruit.
>>
>> Pruning the non fruitfull canes will not put the energy into the grapes
>> if
>> he has excessive vigor. It will go into producing more shoot length for
>> the fruit bearing shoots and leaves. I have read that vines under
>> stress, or simulated stress, will put the energy into seed (and thus the
>> pulp around the seed, as a way to preserve the species) as opposed to
>> trying to reach for the sunlight and climb.
>>
>> I know this is a somewhat controversial subject and is very much
>> dependent on area, definitions of excessive vigor, and other variables
>> but I guess trial and experimentation for individual situations is the
>> only real solution.
>>
>>