On 3/1/05 10:10 PM, "Dick Adams" > wrote:

>
> "Will" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.60.1109707850.30360.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
>>> http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...kel/index.html
>
>> In short, I am saying/speculating: the temp cycle used in the long, slow
>> bake skews to amylase-sugar activity, not yeast-gas activity.
>
> In Try 3 there was a 2 hr. rise as well as some time for the crock pot
> to warm.

Giving the yeasts a little more time to consume that sugar perhaps?

>
>> it might be to get to the traditional "brownness", you need to add
>> malted barley and raise the amylase content to a more traditional
>> "rye-like" base.
>
> Ain't got none of that, but could try some diastatic malt. Actually, I
> do not see how it could get much browner. It could be sweeter,
> though.

I have an ancient bag I bought from KA ten years ago. They still carry it.
It's easier to buy some barley at the local whatever and let it germinate in
your mason jar sprouter (everybody has one in the basement, garage or attic
don't they?).
>
>> I suspect that the bread also needs a period of higher heat to fully
>> caramelize the residual sugar.
>
> I don't think we are talking about caramelization here. That starts
> at quite higher temperatures, certainly above boiling. The temperature
> I measure in the subject loaves is 175 degrees F. So it is probably
> Maillard processes which produce the browning, and some flavor
> as well. It should be clear that the interior temperature of bread
> loaves during baking/cooking cannot exceed boiling temperature.

I agree. Caramelization is not right. Maillard is probably right or maybe
the starches are just gelatinizing.

> I could guess that the lighter color of the loaf of Try 2 was due to
> inhibition of amylases by the excessive amount of acid generated in
> the rye sour by the long incubation at relatively high temperature
> (85 - 90 degrees F. cf. 70 degrees F. for Try 3 and Try 1).
> (Reducing sugars and amino acids are needed for the Maillard
> reactions).

Perhaps the longer fermentation reduced the sugars to gas.

>> I have been raising the temp on my trusty countertop roaster
>> for about 2 hours at the end ... The interior appears to be
>> browner for doing so.
>
> The idea of using a countertop roaster for cooking/baking bread
> seems a very good one, particularly since its compactness and
> insulation renders it energy conservative. The fancy-oven jocks
> might take notice of that, but I guess they won't. Anyway, I do
> not think that higher temperature would accelerate the sugar
> formation and browning in pumpernickel-type breads. But I
> will try it.

It works well for me. Cooking one loaf at a time for most of a day seemed
impractical and energy inefficient. The 18 quart capacity relieves that and
the temperature is more adjustable.

$29 for GE model at Wal-mart. Works good as small proofing box too...
We like our dinner rolls.

>
> I wonder if overclocking a countertop roaster could make it
> function as cloche for bread baking.


>> The bread certainly looks good in the pictures.
>
> Well, of course, pictures can be fixed. I could fool you. But
> I wouldn't! They are from a 1.3 MPixel camera. Even those
> images are too big for my screen, so have to be made smaller
> with a photo editor.
>
The best fix is a fisherman's ruler <g>.

> --
> DickA
>
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