Bob, I don't think you caught the earlier part of this thread but we are
both from Southern California in the same general vacinity, so Jeff Cox's
book suits us just fine.

The comment about me not knowing what topsoil is... well that was just
unnecessary. The 36"-70" number came directly from Cox's book, not my
number. The property I live on is undeveloped, natural land that has had
thousands of years of organic material built up on it. This is not a
housing development where all the ground is scraped free of topsoil during
the building process.

I still disagree with you about the stressed vines but agree with you that
the first years should be stress free since you are attempting to get the
plant off to a good start and don't care about the fruit at this point.
Overly fertilized or overly watered winegrapevines will produce rampant
growth at the expense of the fruit and the fruit will often contain higher
levels of water than wanted for winemaking. Rampant growth also leads to
mildew problems and bunch rot since the air flow becomes restricted in an
overgrown vine.

Like I said in my earlier post, I encourage anyone to doublecheck my
information with the experts. However, I don't believe that an average or
even better-than-average nursery would have much experience with wine grapes
and I don't recommend going down to your local Home Depot garden center with
any great expectations of expert advice. Contact your local people like
the farm adviser or master gardener association for specific information
pertaining to your area.

> From:
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.winemaking
> Date: 9 Feb 2005 05:44:51 -0800
> Subject: google group for grape growing
>
>
> Not sure I agree with much here besides the gopher problem. Gophers
> don't seem to bother grapevines and the chicken wire is a lesson in
> futility. I'll challange anyone to show me land that had 36-70" of top
> soil. He might not know what top soil is. BTW, Nurseries are a GREAT
> place to learn how to grow plants, which contrary to some , grapevines
> are. Stressing vines is a practice only followed in an area where they
> have no problems with winter temps. Ask any grapevine nursery how much
> they stress their vines and I'm sure NONE will answer that they do.
> Young vines are stressed enough. They need to be given an environment
> to FLOURISH. Theoretically, you shouldn't be getting a crop for at
> least 2 years maybe 4 so make sure the first years are STRESS FREE.
> BTW, Jeff Cox's book , IMO, deals with viticulture for the WEST coast.
> His techniques are not practiced where the climate isn't as ideal as
> California. Yes, France stresses their vines but look at their winter
> temps! If you took the stressing "theory" and transfered it to
> Minnesota you'd end up with vineyard of dead vines.
>
> Bob