In article . net>,
Rudy Canoza > wrote:

> Ron wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Ron wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article > ,
> >>> Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Ron wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article >,
> >>>>>Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Ron wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>In article >, "Dutch"
> >
> >>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>In article >, "Dutch"
> >
> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>"Ron" > wrote
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>"Dutch" >
> >>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>"Ron" > wrote
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Then demonstrate by clearly stating what moral code (and not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>law,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>new religion) the vegan violates by buying rice or tomatoes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>They claim to believe that it is wrong to kill animals to obtain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>food.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>I didn't kill any animals when I bought my tomatoes this past week
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>How do you know?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Please identify the animals that I killed.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Why does my inability to identify them matter? Your challenge is stop
> >>>>>>>>posturing, not invent new ways to do so.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>If I were to be accused of killing someone or hiring someone to do
> >>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>killing for me, I would assume that someone would provide SOME
> >>>>>>>evidence
> >>>>>>>of my complicity -- such as the name of the person paying or the name
> >>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>the person who was killed as a result.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>We aren't talking about legal liability for murder or
> >>>>>>complicity to murder. We're talking about moral
> >>>>>>liability for deaths of animals, where those deaths are
> >>>>>>not considered illegal. It is the *principle* of
> >>>>>>complicity that is demonstrated by reference to the
> >>>>>>criminal law.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Let's run this through...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I go to the store. Through my action of wanting to purchase meat, I now
> >>>>>create demand. As a result of my action a series of successive actions
> >>>>>then takes place which you are tracing back to me as the originating
> >>>>>cause.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>An animal dies, as part of this reasoning you hold me accountable for
> >>>>>the death of the animal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Now, if the farmer has a stroke in the process of slaughtering cattle
> >>>>>for me then, I must also be responsible for his death.
> >>>>
> >>>>No. You already know why not.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>His death can be
> >>>>>traced backed to me as "the first cause".
> >>>>
> >>>>Nope.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>If I hadn't wanted or needed
> >>>>>meat he wouldn't have been slaughtering the cattle and wouldn't have
> >>>>>died.
> >>>>
> >>>>Would have been doing something else, and died.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>[...]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>No one is suggesting that "vegans'"
> >>>>>>complicity in the deaths of animals is illegal; just
> >>>>>>that it is immoral, according to *their* alleged
> >>>>>>"ethics". It IS immoral with respect to their alleged
> >>>>>>"ethics", and it is not necessary to know which
> >>>>>>"vegans" killed which animals.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Then please explain why one is
> >>>>
> >>>>Because of their active, voluntary, fully aware
> >>>>participation in a *process* that leads to deaths they
> >>>>consider immoral.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Let's apply this thinking to another example.
> >>
> >>No. You didn't honestly consider my example. Do that,
> >>then maybe you can try again.
> >
> >
> > All you've done is to provide me with more evidence that it is time that
> > we remove this feature from our laws.
>
> No. You actively support such laws. You WANT the
> getaway driver in a robbery that results in a death to
> be punished more harshly than the getaway driver in a
> robbery that does not result in a death.

Typically, I don't concern myself with such things. I think it's time
that I do. I think it is time to take the this feature of a very
illogical system to task.