C. James Strutz wrote:
>>>>>>The last major outbreak of food-borne hepatitis in the US involved
>>>>>>GREEN ONIONS. Most food-borne illnesses in the US are caused by
>>>>>>produce.
>>>>>
>>>>>Prove it.
>>>>
>>>>...[F]ederal health surveillance of food-borne diseases from
>>>>1993 to 1997 found 2,751 outbreaks. Those outbreaks totaled
>>>>12,537 individual cases involving fruits and vegetables,
>>>>compared with 6,709 cases involving meat.
>>>>http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...od-cover_x.htm
>>>
>>>Okay, good information. Still, my original point was that sushi and other
>>>raw meats offer a greater probability of food borne illness, especially
>>>at room temperatures.
>>
>>Salad bars are much more worthy of your concern. The food is near room
>>temperature and in an environment in which unwashed hands can contact food
>>and utensils.
>
> True, for that reason I rarely eat at salad bars.
From the standpoint of food safety and hygiene, deep frying is safer
than raw. That comes in handy when traveling in other countries where
standards aren't as high as they are here.
>>Sashimi. I've written about my predilection for sushi in the past. Sushi
>>and fish aren't the same thing. I've also posted links (definitely) and
>>recipes (iirc) for vegetarian sushi.
>
> I love vegetable sushi, especially with shitake mushrooms. Even better are
> the condiments - there's nothing like a good dose of wasabi to clear out the
> nasal passages! Maybe you could repost your recipes for vegetarian sushi if
> you find the time...
I couldn't find them, but I did find a thread where we discussed sushi:
http://tinyurl.com/3zk3l
I also found a link to a recipe Kake posted:
http://www.ivu.org/hlsc/recipes/sushi.html
>>>I pointed out that there is an increased risk of acquiring intestinal
>>>parasites by eating raw meats, such as in sushi.
>>
>>And I pointed back that the data shows as much danger linked to
>>contaminated produce. Refresh my memory, in what state did the Chi-chi's
>>hepatitis outbreak from green onions occur?
>
> Western Pennsylvania, the Chi-Chi's at the Beaver Valley Mall to be
> specific - maybe 20 miles from my house.
I was only rubbing it in. I knew where it was.
> Chi-Chi's is now out of business (no great loss).
That particular location may be closed, but the chain is still in
business (they did file Chapter 11 bankruptcy). They were recently
purchased by Outback Steakhouse. Outback is converting most of the
locations into their own brands, but some Chi-chi's will remain just as
they were (or possibly with new branding to get away from their
tarnished image).
> I'm well aware of this and other cases of produce
> contamination. There is a local case pending right now about a woman who
> claims to have been sickened by eating roma tomatoes at a Sheetz store.
As the article I posted said, most inspection resources are targeted at
meat despite the fact that more outbreaks are associated with produce,
much of which is imported and never inspected.
>>>(BTW, the statistics you quoted were from 1993 through 1997 - 10 years
>>>ago).
>>
>>The article was from this year. And if the leftist food police are to be
>>believed, nothing has changed in food inspection and safety the last ten
>>years -- except that we're importing a lot more produce.
>
> Which is where the contaminated green onions came from (Mexico). The USA
> Today article did a good job bringing awareness to the produce contamination
> problem, especially with imported produce.
Yes, but even domestic produce causes serious health problems. Remember
what happened with Odwalla Juices a few years ago.
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9611/01/e.coli.poisoning/
>>>>>Enjoy your sushi....
>>>>
>>>>I did. I also enjoy the fact that ninnies like you take exception to it.
>>>
>>>>Well, dummy, I wanted sushi today.
>>>
>>>I wasn't trying to be provocative or insulting or demeaning in any way.
>>>And here you start again with the childish name calling. Some "olive
>>>branch" you have offered. I don't care whether you eat sushi or not. I
>>>only pointed out the risks of eating raw meat stored at room temeratures.
>>>I don't understand your problem....
>>
>>Let's also discuss the risks of eating raw produce, especially at room
>>temperature. Where's your concern about that?
>
> Look, nowhere have I denied that there is a problem with contaminated
> produce. I simply pointed out that there is an increased risk of eating raw
> meat/fish that has been stored at room temperature.
Sashimi isn't stored at room temperature -- health codes forbid that.
The risk isn't "increased."
> That's all. You are
> pushing this issue far to the other side.
I think you are. The fact remains that one is just as likely to become
ill from produce as from meat, if not *more* likely. You linked to a
Massachusetts health site about sushi and then pointed to the part about
rice being handled at prime temperatures for bacterial growth. That
information also mentioned the safe handling procedures, including
acidifying the rice -- which is standard practice in sushi bars.
> This is the exaggeration thing I
> talked about before.
You mean like you did with respect to intestinal parasites? The risks
are about the same if you eat contaminated meat or produce, or if you
drink dirty water.
> You make good points
True.
> but you also exaggerate issues
> away from those being discussed - seemingly in defense of meat many times
> (undoubtedly because this is a vegan newsgroup).
Explain. I pointed you back to data which shows that the potential
health risks of raw produce exceed those of meat.
> It's like you try to bring
> balance to a discussion but you often weigh too heavily on opposing
> viewpoints. I dare say that this is one of the issues at hand in our
> "extreme" dialogue. :^)
I don't see this as an extreme dialogue. I see this as you've made some
points and I've shown that they're relatively trivial (not in a
perjorative sense). The risks you point out are of the same kind and in
the same proportion whether one eats meat or not; the risks are also
insignificant between plant and meat. The question is how the food's
produced, how it's stored, and how it's prepared. The risks increase or
decrease each step along the way whether it's of plant or animal origin.
>>Have a happy, safe, and prosperous 2005, Jim.
>
> Now this is a a sincere olive branch. Thank you and same to you.
Thanks.