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N. Thornton
 
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Default Icing secret ???

(Roy Basan) wrote in message om>...
> >
(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com>...

> > > lol! Its a lovely moist coating. Readers will note youve not actually
> > > tried it.

> > Therefore in the
> > end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.

>
>
> >This is all a beautiful illustration of the old saying '>theory and
> >practice are the same in theory, but different in >practice.'

> Although
> >what you say might sound believable, its far from what >happens. I've
> >been making coconut icing for years, and whether you >believe me or
> >not, its definitely a superior icing. Try some and >find out. If you
> >dont, youre guessing, or maybe reasoning, but not >reasoning right
> >somewhere.

>
> Coconut icing with no sugar? That is a misnomer?
> An icing or even called a frosting usually contains sugar. It may or
> may not contain fat.Such as the boiled icing and related meringue
> based icing.
> But what you are talking about is a mixture of coconut oil and
> cardamom powder. That is considered a coating and not an icing.
> However if that how you call it then that's fine.
>
> I think I will never be able to try that as in my situation icings are
> sweet and if its bland and spicy the bakery business will go bankrupt.
> You do not make things just to prove a point; I produce things because
> somebody needs it and the business I am working with depends on it.
>
>
> >a guess

> It is not a conjecture,,,,What you are doing is considered (frankly
> speaking)sheer madness ?..
> Mixing fat and spice and call that an icing? What a silly idea that
> no respectable bakery employer will even think about. being sold in
> his bakery.
>
> If I have to make your style use that to coat my cakes and present
> that to the customer, ....
> Gosh! Somebody will bring a straitjacket to tie me up and bring me to
> the insane asylum!
> That will be the end to my illustrious and lucrative career.
>
> > I have seen some sample of that so called fat block made with coconut
> > fat. It is called Copha.It is a firm block of fat appearing like
> > tallow but whiter.
> > I am using it as the fat component ( instead of costly butter)to
> > prepare commercial caramel and fudge sweets. From my experience in
> > using it, its not dispersible in water. It needs an emulsifier.
> >
> >no: what you say is true if the concentration is low, >but over a

> wide
> >range it disperses very well. I've never had a >dispersion problem,

> but
> >I know not to try using it the way you describe.

>
> Well again I do not have the opportunity to verify such claim. If I
> will experiment with that (and as requied by company regulation)
> record the complete details of the trial in our R&D information
> atabase; and somebody in the company reads it; I will be subjected to
> ridicule and my professional credibility will be tarnished.
> The company technical manager will say ?there is a wacko in this
> establishment.
> Get rid of him while he still partly sober!'
>
> > Even if
> > I add glycerol monostearate( GMS) to form an emulsion( so that caramel
> > sweet will be homogenous looking) with continous stirring,its is
> > difficult to disperse in water.
> > I also notice that if the fat was improperly emulsified in the cooking
> > of such particular candy, you will find globules of fat on the surface
> > of the finished confection.

>
> >low concentration, different hardening temps probably >as well.

>
> Well no matter if the concentration is higher or lower. In past
> trials with coconut based shortening when I was still in Asia. I had
> applied that shortening in many aspects of bakery application. From
> bread,cakes, cookies, pastries. It had a consistent result that the
> products upon storage( for even a few days) tend to exhibit that soapy
> aftertaste and a faint aroma technically described as methyl ketone
> which is unpleasant.In some cases it can exhibit an odour of dried
> copra.
> > Now going back to your idea of making a water in oil emulsion or i.e.
> > technically speaking the aqueous phase is dispersed in the fat phase(
> > or simply a greater ratio of fat in relation to water how do you
> > stabilize that?
> > I do not see good stability of such coating.

>
> >its perfectly stable

>
> You still have much to learn about the peculiarity of coconut oil
> based fats.
> Indeed its stable to oxidative rancidity because of little amount of
> linoleic acid; but not to hydrolytic rancidity because of the high
> content of lauric fatty acid which is almost 50 Percent of the total
> fatty acids in coconut fat.? This is why the latter spoilage pathway
> is more faster (10X faster if compared to other fats)in coconut fat
> than in other oils (except palm kernel oil which is similar in
> composition to the coconut and exhibit the same spoilage pattern).
> This latter kind of spoilage is common when you put water in the
> coconut fat and agitate it without any heat treatment.To tell you I
> did not have good success with using coconut fat as the base for white
> icing which I had good results with soybean and cottonseed based
> shortening in terms which are capable of producing a clean tasting
> icing that can carry a wide range of flavors.
>
>
> If you think that you really love the coconut fat, it implies that you
> had a fetish for such fat<g>.
>
> '
> If
> It just surprises me that you did not even experienced that.
>
> ,
> > Another thing that is has lower stability is that the fatty acid
> > called lauric acid is abundant in such fat.In presence of moisture(
> > you are adding water in it) and the microbes floating in the air will
> > come in contact with the mixture releasing enzymes( lipases) that will
> > split the fat (triglyceride) say( palm-oloein
> > laurein),stearo-laurein palmitin,etc) resulting in the breakdown to
> > its component palmitic acid, stearic aid, oleic acid and lauric
> > acid.The last component is responsiblef for the soapy taste.
> > This lauric acid will react with existing sodium ions ( mineral
> > content)present in the formulation to form a soap. Therefore in the
> > end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.

>
> >no. There are other constituents in coconut youre overlooking.

> Wait,,,, what are the constituents of coconut fat?
> Let us see the chemistry?.
> this is the breakdown of the fatty acid content of such fat:
> Caprylic acid 7.6%
> Capric acid 7.3%
> Lauric acid 48.2%
> Myristic acid 16.6%
> Palmitic acid 8
> Palmitoleic acid 1.0%
> Stearic acid 3.8%
> Oleic acid 5%
> Linoleic acid 2.5%
>
> The other fatty acids are found also in other fats such palm oil,
> soyabean, corn, sunflower, cottonseed.
> So may I ask what are the constituents of coconut fat that I missed?
> Unless you are using a proprietary composition that contains not only
> coconut but also other materials.
>
> >ry it, or dont, your choice.

> Naah, I;'m sorry ??I still love my job?.
> BTW, when you start making that ?loony icing' again I think its better
> if :
> you can start singing at the same time this coconut song<g>.
>
> ?The coconut nut is not a nut.
> IF you eat too much you get very fat'
> ????
> ?It is the coco fruit,
> from the coco tree ,
> of the coco palm family.'
>
> > NT?

> Are you from northern territory in Australia? I was trying to think of
> what is the reason for your fondness for coconut.<g>
> Northern territory being in the tropical part of australia has lots of
> coconut in it.
> Regards,
> Roy Basan



Every one of your points you raised here was already answered in my
post to which you responded - except one. The answer to that one is
caprylic acid. You sound to me like a true fool. You dont seem to have
followed any of it, or applied even basic sense. I wish you luck with
your bakery, though it doesnt sounds like your range is anything to
write home about.


Regards, NT