FoodBanter.com - View Single Post

(Roy Basan) wrote in message . com>...
> (N. Thornton) wrote in message . com>...
> > lol! Its a lovely moist coating. Readers will note youve not actually
> > tried it.
> Therefore in the
> end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.

>This is all a beautiful illustration of the old saying '>theory and
>practice are the same in theory, but different in >practice.'
Although
>what you say might sound believable, its far from what >happens. I've
>been making coconut icing for years, and whether you >believe me or
>not, its definitely a superior icing. Try some and >find out. If you
>dont, youre guessing, or maybe reasoning, but not >reasoning right
>somewhere.

Coconut icing with no sugar? That is a misnomer…
An icing or even called a frosting usually contains sugar. It may or
may not contain fat.Such as the boiled icing and related meringue
based icing.
But what you are talking about is a mixture of coconut oil and
cardamom powder. That is considered a coating and not an icing.
However if that how you call it then that's fine.

I think I will never be able to try that as in my situation icings are
sweet and if its bland and spicy the bakery business will go bankrupt.
You do not make things just to prove a point; I produce things because
somebody needs it and the business I am working with depends on it.

>a guess
It is not a conjecture,,,,What you are doing is considered (frankly
speaking)sheer madness …..
Mixing fat and spice and call that an icing? What a silly idea that
no respectable bakery employer will even think about. being sold in
his bakery.

If I have to make your style use that to coat my cakes and present
that to the customer, ....
Gosh! Somebody will bring a straitjacket to tie me up and bring me to
the insane asylum!
That will be the end to my illustrious and lucrative career.

> I have seen some sample of that so called fat block made with coconut
> fat. It is called Copha.It is a firm block of fat appearing like
> tallow but whiter.
> I am using it as the fat component ( instead of costly butter)to
> prepare commercial caramel and fudge sweets. From my experience in
> using it, its not dispersible in water. It needs an emulsifier.
>
>no: what you say is true if the concentration is low, >but over a
wide
>range it disperses very well. I've never had a >dispersion problem,
but
>I know not to try using it the way you describe.

Well again I do not have the opportunity to verify such claim. If I
will experiment with that (and as requied by company regulation)
record the complete details of the trial in our R&D information
atabase; and somebody in the company reads it; I will be subjected to
ridicule and my professional credibility will be tarnished.
The company technical manager will say ‘there is a wacko in this
establishment.
Get rid of him while he still partly sober!'

> Even if
> I add glycerol monostearate( GMS) to form an emulsion( so that caramel
> sweet will be homogenous looking) with continous stirring,its is
> difficult to disperse in water.
> I also notice that if the fat was improperly emulsified in the cooking
> of such particular candy, you will find globules of fat on the surface
> of the finished confection.

>low concentration, different hardening temps probably >as well.

Well no matter if the concentration is higher or lower. In past
trials with coconut based shortening when I was still in Asia. I had
applied that shortening in many aspects of bakery application. From
bread,cakes, cookies, pastries. It had a consistent result that the
products upon storage( for even a few days) tend to exhibit that soapy
aftertaste and a faint aroma technically described as methyl ketone
which is unpleasant.In some cases it can exhibit an odour of dried
copra.
> Now going back to your idea of making a water in oil emulsion or i.e.
> technically speaking the aqueous phase is dispersed in the fat phase(
> or simply a greater ratio of fat in relation to water

how do you
> stabilize that?
> I do not see good stability of such coating.

>its perfectly stable

You still have much to learn about the peculiarity of coconut oil
based fats.
Indeed its stable to oxidative rancidity because of little amount of
linoleic acid; but not to hydrolytic rancidity because of the high
content of lauric fatty acid which is almost 50 Percent of the total
fatty acids in coconut fat.˜ This is why the latter spoilage pathway
is more faster (10X faster if compared to other fats)in coconut fat
than in other oils (except palm kernel oil which is similar in
composition to the coconut and exhibit the same spoilage pattern).
This latter kind of spoilage is common when you put water in the
coconut fat and agitate it without any heat treatment.To tell you I
did not have good success with using coconut fat as the base for white
icing which I had good results with soybean and cottonseed based
shortening in terms which are capable of producing a clean tasting
icing that can carry a wide range of flavors.

If you think that you really love the coconut fat, it implies that you
had a fetish for such fat<g>.

'
If
It just surprises me that you did not even experienced that.

,
> Another thing that is has lower stability is that the fatty acid
> called lauric acid is abundant in such fat.In presence of moisture(
> you are adding water in it) and the microbes floating in the air will
> come in contact with the mixture releasing enzymes( lipases) that will
> split the fat (triglyceride) say( palm-oloein
> laurein),stearo-laurein palmitin,etc) resulting in the breakdown to
> its component palmitic acid, stearic aid, oleic acid and lauric
> acid.The last component is responsiblef for the soapy taste.
> This lauric acid will react with existing sodium ions ( mineral
> content)present in the formulation to form a soap. Therefore in the
> end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.

>no. There are other constituents in coconut youre overlooking.
Wait,,,, what are the constituents of coconut fat?
Let us see the chemistry….
this is the breakdown of the fatty acid content of such fat:
Caprylic acid 7.6%
Capric acid 7.3%
Lauric acid 48.2%
Myristic acid 16.6%
Palmitic acid 8
Palmitoleic acid 1.0%
Stearic acid 3.8%
Oleic acid 5%
Linoleic acid 2.5%

The other fatty acids are found also in other fats such palm oil,
soyabean, corn, sunflower, cottonseed.
So may I ask what are the constituents of coconut fat that I missed?
Unless you are using a proprietary composition that contains not only
coconut but also other materials.

>ry it, or dont, your choice.

Naah, I;'m sorry ……I still love my job….
BTW, when you start making that ‘loony icing' again I think its better
if :
you can start singing at the same time this coconut song<g>.

‘The coconut nut is not a nut.
IF you eat too much you get very fat'
…………
‘It is the coco fruit,
from the coco tree ,
of the coco palm family.'

> NT?
Are you from northern territory in Australia? I was trying to think of
what is the reason for your fondness for coconut.<g>
Northern territory being in the tropical part of australia has lots of
coconut in it.
Regards,
Roy Basan