Well, I'll just say one more this about that...

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:13:09 +1300, "st.helier" > said:

] Or - the apology you make without making an apology !!!!!
]
] To any and all who *genuinely* took offence at my warped antipodean sense of
] humour, please accept this as a Bush X Clinton apology - meaning - quite
] frankly, I don't think that an apology is necessary, but if it makes *you*
] feel better, then here it is - OK?
]

Sure that's OK, and to my view fair enough. I respond because I think the
logic touches on why the original statement would be offensive to some.

In any international or multicultural group norms of politeness dictate
avoiding offense to group members. This sensitivity is what seemingly
prompted you reply above.

I remember when a callow youth I used to hang a lot at my friend David's
place up in the Bronx. One day when his Mom was driving me back
downtown, his little sister (maybe 4) saw a white guy crossing the street
and yelled "big points! Get whitey!" or words very close to that. An
uncomfortable silence followed, and I'll bet she got a _serious_ talking to
later. (I'm white, BTW). What was clear to me was that there was an
installed culture of separation, which (maybe more for David than I)
was a sort of barrier that wouldn't have existed had we shared the same
skin color. Although I may never have given it any thought, to the little
girl I was "different," and what's more an object of some humor.
(FWIW I was surprised but not particularly offended at the time, did
laugh it off, and accepted the apologies of the embarrassed Mom without
reserve.) Your comment reflects a similar cultural bias.

For the record, hate crimes against gays in the US, or for that matter
here in France, are no laughing matter. It seems to me that implicitly
deriding a population -- whether that's your intent or no -- by making
a joke that touches on a deeply felt issue is insensitive at best, but
certainly entirely inappropriate in a multicultural ng.

To mis-quote the words (if not actions) of our US president: "Be a uniter,
not a divider." (Hmm, is uniter really a word at all?) That's why we
welcome newbies, answer questions, avoid flames, follow netiquette, right?
It's hard to imagine that a *** reader would find your comment
welcoming.

As for your dismissal of the hapless OP, or words below, I have
no problem with it at all. Personally I wondered if you had too much
time on your hands when I saw the response to a post I ignored completely.

Like "Vino" I appreciate your posts and even your warped sense of humor.
(Not sure that most americans know what "bugger" really means, BTW,
but maybe some Britcom explained it.) I'm not asking -- not that it
would do any good! -- for a change. Nor I am particularly "politically
correct," I just felt you had crossed the line with this one.

'Nuf said, I accept the apology in the sense you meant it, I hope this
explains a little where I'm coming from here.

-E

] Now, here is a whole list of things for which I *do not* apologise.
]
] I *do not* apologise for living in a part of the world where we have *not*
] lost the ability to laugh, particularly at ourselves.
] I *do not* apologise for being an intolerant s.o.b. who cannot abide fools;
] whilst remaining realistic enough to know that I might be one of them!
] I *do not* apologise for the 99% of my reply which in essence said "Engage
] your brain; engage your feet, and remove your forefinger from you own
] fundamental orifice before making inane requests into the cyber world."
] I *do not* apologise for loving so much about the USA, whilst holding the
] view that it is also the most hypercritic, moralistic nation on earth, and
] which may eventually prove to be the greatest factor in the downfall of
] humanity.
] And lastly, I *do not* intend to change - I will continue to attempt to
] bring an irreverent perspective to this forum. I am not without sin; I am an
] agnostic, rather egocentric, slightly ROC leaning, older bugger (antipodean
] slang!!!!!!!) who will continue to try to make you laugh and squirm and may
] even succeed in offending your particular sensitivities, because, frankly my
] dears, I don't give a damn!!!
]
] --
]
] st.helier
]
]


--
Emery Davis
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