Ah no, when the chinese first knew coffee, they called it Ka Fei, after the
word Cafe. I'm not surprised the French might the first to introduce the
beans to the chinese, in Yunnan, where a small potent amount is still being
cultivated...can anyone verify this fact for me?


"Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote in message
...
> Exactly.
> And, therefore, CHA should be understood in general terms as a "steeped
> beverage, mostly, but not necessarily from C. sinensis". And the best
> translation is "tea" because in English tea also may be made from other
than
> C. sinenis plants.
> I am almost sure that when Chinese first saw coffee they must have called
it
> some "CHA" before the adopted the contemporary, westernized name for it.
>
> Sasha.
>
> "samarkand" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Interesting topic, I'll tackle Livio and Mike later when I have the
time,
> > but let's look at your experiment now:
> >
> > Let me subject your experiment to geographical shifts:
> >
> > In China, Hongkong & Taiwan, where tea is more commonly drunk -
> >
> > when A says 'I want some CHA', it is generally accepted that he means
any
> > beverage that might come under the name of tea, since you left the
> > quantifier 'SOME' which leaves the option open. If A wants a C
sinensis,
> > he'll say 'I want CHA'.
> >
> > In other parts of asia where chinese is spoken, the difference between C
> > sinensis and non C sinensis beverage is blurred, and most are not
> > particular
> > where one ends and the other begins, so when A says 'I want some CHA', B
> > is
> > ready for whatever choice A comes up with.
> >
> > In both instances, B is not surprised.
> >
> > More commonly, the exchange might be:
> >
> > A: I want some Cha
> > B: What kind of Cha? English Cha or Chinese Cha?
> > A: I want Chrysanthemum Cha
> > B: Sugared or non sugared?
> > A: Sugared...
> >
> >
> > "Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> >> Wonderful information, I envy your references. Can you actually say if
> > cha2
> >> connection to tu2 is a well-establishe fact and if yes, can you point
me
> >> toward a ref? If its too difficult, forget it.
> >>
> >> One thing though (about cha being as I aid - "steeped drink".
> >> Let us follow Einstein and and put together several thought
experiments.
> >>
> >> Experiment one:
> >> Person A who is a guest of Person B said in presence of others in
Chinese
> > (I
> >> am using the mix of English and Chinese so its easier for everyone to
> >> follow):
> >> " I want some CHA".
> >> Person B asked "What kind?"
> >> Person A : "I'd like some Chrisantemun flower CHA if possible"
> >>
> >> If CHA HAS to be C. sinensis the person B would be surprised with the
> >> request for Chrisantemun flower variety.
> >> If CHA is a general "steeped drink", he will not be surprised.
> >>
> >> My questions to you:
> >> 1. Will B be surprized? and if yes
> >> 2. How A should ask for a non-C. sinensis tea?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Alex.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Livio Zanini" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> >> Comment: I think that translating "cha" as "tea" while 100% right
for
> >> >> general purposes, for people deeply interested in tea certain notes
> >> >> should
> >> >> be added. The full and precise meaning of "Cha" is "steeped drink".
> >> > Although
> >> >> 99% of the time it is made of C. sinensis, many other plants can be
> > used.
> >> >> Translating it to English "tea" is still the best because in English
> >> >> "tea"
> >> >> can also be non-C. sinensis (Camomille tea, etc.).
> >> >> Addition: There is a Chinese character that means :leaves of C.
> >> > sinensis" -
> >> >> its ming2. It combines normal character ming - "name" with grass
> > radical
> >> >> (same as on the top of "cha"). Unicode index U+8317.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Just a few remarks: The character "cha2" seems to be the graphical
> >> > evolution
> >> > of "tu2", a character that was used in ancient times to indicate a
kind
> > of
> >> > "bitter vegetable". "Cha2" in its present shape, came in to use only
in
> >> > the
> >> > Tang dynasty (8th century), with the composition of "Chajing" by Lu
Yu,
> >> > but
> >> > it seems that the character "tu2" was already pronunced "cha2" when
> >> > used
> >> > to
> >> > indicate C. sinensis in order to distinguis it from other "bitter
> > plants".
> >> > Regard to "ming2", ancient lexicographical dictionaries define it as
> > "buds
> >> > of tu2", which seems to confirm the identification of "tu2" with tea.
> >> > It would also be useful to remind that tea was boiled and not steeped
> >> > by
> >> > the
> >> > time the character "cha2" came in to use.
> >> > Apart its historical development, the Chinese character "cha2", as
its
> >> > equivalent English word "tea", indicates basically three things: a
> > plant,
> >> > the dried leaves of this plant and the beverage prepared with these
> >> > leaves.
> >> > As a plant "cha2" indicates solely C. sinensis. If followed by the
term
> >> > "shu3" (genus), it indicates the whole genus Camellia, out of which
C.
> >> > sinensis is the only "drinkable" specie. As dry leaves and beverage
it
> >> > indicates mainly the leaves of C. sinensis and the beverage prepared
> > with
> >> > them. It can also be used for the leaves of other plants used for
> >> > preparing
> >> > drinks, but always preceded by the name of the plant: e.g. juhua cha
> >> > (Chrisantemun flowers tea), xingren cha (almond porridge), kuding cha
> >> > (beverage made with Ilex kudingcha).
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>