"williamwaller" > wrote in message =
news:mailman.5.1096214652.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

> I have struggled with #4 myself as well. My gas oven retains a lot of =
water
> vapor (is damp) during the early stages of heating. But that hasn't
> translated into keeping the crust soft enough to fully develop the =
crumb.

My point would be: if you take the whole rise before baking, there is =
not
a need to keep the crust pliable.

So, to revise the question: can the crumb be developed as the dough
rises on the bench, and if not, why not??=20

In other words, exactly why is it that we need a hot oven to make the
loaves holey?

Well, we are heating some gases, and vaporizing a bit of alcohol. And =
getting
a death blast of carbon dioxide from the "critters". But why not just =
arrange
for the critters to do a bit more work as the loaf sits on the counter?

> I get better loaves from a very hot start and proper slashing to =
facilitate
> the final push. I bake this way when I proof in baskets and invert.

Well, proper slashing is quite a knack, you know! And the basket flip
is a marvelous antic, when mastered. I always had trouble with both.

> I also use La Cloche covered bakers, primarily when I want a long, =
extensive
> proof, almost an over-proof situation, where the dough becomes too =
flaccid
> to handle. Most of my heavier whole grain breads get this treatment. =
These
> loaves work best with a covered cold start while the oven builds to =
500 F.
> Then I heat soak the loaves uncovered for 12-15 minutes to mature the =
crust.
> I suppose that would translate into "taking the last part of the rise =
in the
> oven", except the doughs are usually so mature there is little spring
> potential. It is more trapping the outgassed dough moisture as an =
analogue
> for "steam" than anything else. This works quite well (not to the =
point of
> ebullience) but has proven far superior, and simpler, than any other
> machination for generating "steam" like pans with water, spritzing the =
oven,
> etc...

Well, it sounds like you have got the cloche bake down to a routine. =
Could
you post some photos of your cloche-baked loaves?

(For some reason I thought one started with a preheated cloche, and I =
trepidated
at the very thought of handling such a thing. "Carlos" did some =
admirable work=20
with a flower pot: http://home.att.net/carlospics/ArtisanalLoaf.htm. =
Well, it says
to look for further developments, but so far I have not seen any.)

--=20
Dick Adams
(Sourdough minimalist)
<firstname> dot <lastname> at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html