>
>Roland had said:
>
>> > I think intensive kneading makes a uniform crumb.
>
>to which John replied:
>
>> Not in my experience. I mix at relatively high speed for longer than =
>most
>> bakers and stretch and fold a lot, making a dough (or glop<g>) that is
>> extremely elastic and extensible, giving the dough the ability to form =
>large
>> pockets that are stable enough to bake due to the strength of the cell =
>walls.
>
>That is my thought, too. I am guessing that good dough is needed for =
>good
>holes just like good soapsuds are needed for good soap bubbles. Of =
>course
>one cannot go too far with that analogy because of the profound =
>difference
>in the molecular structure between starch-gluten membranes and soapsuds.
>For dough I'd guess that well-arranged an optimally elongated gluten=20
>tendrils would be a considerable advantage.

"well arranged" gluten is why I and many others, rotate the dough horizontally
through 90 degrees afetr each stretch and fold. The analogy here is those
glass/resin laminates that have alternate layers of glass strands laid at 90
degrees to each other. I can, sometimes convince myself that it makes a
difference but I'd be lying if I said I could prove it.

>
>However, one could alternatively propose, because of the well-known
>molecular forces at surfaces that, under appropriate conditions, the=20
>macromolecules of dough would be arranged by those, from a helter-
>skelter state to start, to ordered, elastic/extensible, structures.
>
>> I must stress that the preceding observations apply to high, 80%+ =
>doughs. =20
>
>I am still having trouble with the concept of bakers' hydration because =
>of
>the moisture already in dough when milled, and the moisture which is
>absorbed upon storage. So the 75% hydration I have claimed for my
>big-hole experiments could be considerably higher, depending on how
>those sources are considered.

Agreed. I take bakers' hydration only as a rough guide to the handling
qualities of the dough. The wetter doughs also absorb some flour from the
stretch and fold process so the fiinal hydration is lower than the mixed
hydration.

>
>> > Wet doughs have weaker walls of individual air cells so they may =
>fuse=20
>> > to form larger cells (says Roland, characteristically =
>straight-faced).
>
>> Not sure that "weaker" is how I would describe the elastic dough I=20
>> produce<g> (says John, grinningly).
>
>Well, if water molecules are important in the matrix, the matrix may be
>worse or better depending on their relative abundance. We would really
>need to hear from Uncle Linus about that.
>
>Otherwise I suspect that empirical science is the best hope, =
>notwithstanding
>that the isolation of parameters and variables in extemporaneous kitchen =
>
>studies is problematic (says Dick, giggling quietly up his sleeve).

"Problematic"? Dick, you have a talent for understatement. I would have said
"Damn near impossible.
>
>---
>DickA

John