"Wcsjohn" > wrote in message =
...

Roland had said:

> > I think intensive kneading makes a uniform crumb.

to which John replied:

> Not in my experience. I mix at relatively high speed for longer than =
most
> bakers and stretch and fold a lot, making a dough (or glop<g>) that is
> extremely elastic and extensible, giving the dough the ability to form =
large
> pockets that are stable enough to bake due to the strength of the cell =
walls.

That is my thought, too. I am guessing that good dough is needed for =
good
holes just like good soapsuds are needed for good soap bubbles. Of =
course
one cannot go too far with that analogy because of the profound =
difference
in the molecular structure between starch-gluten membranes and soapsuds.
For dough I'd guess that well-arranged an optimally elongated gluten=20
tendrils would be a considerable advantage.

However, one could alternatively propose, because of the well-known
molecular forces at surfaces that, under appropriate conditions, the=20
macromolecules of dough would be arranged by those, from a helter-
skelter state to start, to ordered, elastic/extensible, structures.

> I must stress that the preceding observations apply to high, 80%+ =
doughs. =20

I am still having trouble with the concept of bakers' hydration because =
of
the moisture already in dough when milled, and the moisture which is
absorbed upon storage. So the 75% hydration I have claimed for my
big-hole experiments could be considerably higher, depending on how
those sources are considered.

> > Wet doughs have weaker walls of individual air cells so they may =
fuse=20
> > to form larger cells (says Roland, characteristically =
straight-faced).

> Not sure that "weaker" is how I would describe the elastic dough I=20
> produce<g> (says John, grinningly).

Well, if water molecules are important in the matrix, the matrix may be
worse or better depending on their relative abundance. We would really
need to hear from Uncle Linus about that.

Otherwise I suspect that empirical science is the best hope, =
notwithstanding
that the isolation of parameters and variables in extemporaneous kitchen =

studies is problematic (says Dick, giggling quietly up his sleeve).

---
DickA