Jeßus wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 20:03:00 -0500, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > Jeßus wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >
> >> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:19:00 -0500, "cshenk" >
> wrote: >>
> >> > Jeßus wrote in rec.food.cooking:
> >> >
> >> >> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:32:18 -0600, Janet B
> > >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 06:12:28 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >>
> >> >> > > I'm looking forward to mutton sandwiches today.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > When cooked that long, I would expect the lamb/mutton to be
> very >> >> > gamy. Or does the long cooking modify the stronger
> taste of >> >> > mutton. I don't know, so am curious. Or perhaps
> you like the >> >> > taste of mutton. My mother always went on and
> on about mutton >> and >> > the strong taste so I am wondering.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, it is gamey. I do say that under protest, because I don't
> >> find it >> gamey at all. But I know some ppl on RFC find even lamb
> >> gamey, so... >> 
> >> >
> >> > We've only only one name for all the other versions others use,
> >> > from 2 to 3 tooth, hogget and mutton..
> >>
> >> Two-tooth is a common term here as well.
> >
> > That is what I thought. Peter used to mention it. I think 2 tooth
> > was hogget and 3 tooth was mutton but I may have it wrong.
>
> That is correct.
>
> > All lamb
> > critters regardless of age are labeled 'lamb' here in the USA.
> > Hence you have the confusion. Some are not aware there is a
> > difference. Some will even insist they have only 'lamb' meaning a
> > baby lamb and complain that it is gamey.
>
> Sheesh. how can lamb be regarded as gamey? And just to add
> complication, the sheep I raise and kill for meat are actually all
> wethers <G> (wether = castrated male)
>
> lamb/hogget/mutton, the Wikipedia page on the subject explains the
> differences-
>
> Lamb, hogget, and mutton (UK, Pakistan, South Africa, Canada, Nepal,
> New Zealand and Australia)[1] are terms for the meat of domestic sheep
> (species Ovis aries) at different ages.
>
> A sheep in its first year is called a lamb, and its meat is also
> called lamb. The meat of a juvenile sheep older than one year is
> hogget; outside North America this is also a term for the living
> animal.[2] The meat of an adult sheep is mutton, a term only used for
> the meat, not the living animals. The term mutton is sometimes used to
> refer to goat meat in the Indian subcontinent.[3][4][5][6]
>
> Lamb is the most expensive of the three types, and in recent decades
> sheep meat is increasingly only retailed as "lamb", sometimes
> stretching the accepted distinctions given above. The stronger-tasting
> mutton is now hard to find in many areas, despite the efforts of the
> Mutton Renaissance Campaign in the UK. In Australia, the term prime
> lamb is often used to refer to lambs raised for meat.[7] Other
> languages, for example French and Italian, make similar, or even more
> detailed, distinctions between sheep meat by age and sometimes by
> gender, though these languages don't use different words to refer to
> the animal and its meat.
>
> The definitions for lamb, hogget and mutton vary considerably between
> countries. Younger lambs are smaller and more tender. Mutton is meat
> from a sheep over two years old, and has less tender flesh. In
> general, the darker the colour, the older the animal. Baby lamb meat
> will be pale pink, while regular lamb is pinkish-red.
> Commonwealth countries
>
> Lamb — a young sheep under 12 months of age which does not have
> any permanent incisor teeth in wear. (Note that the Australian
> definition requires 0 permanent incisors, whereas the New Zealand
> definition allows 0 incisors 'in wear'.)
> Hogget — A term for a sheep of either sex having no more than two
> permanent incisors in wear,[8] or its meat. Still common in farming
> usage, it is now rare as a domestic or retail term for the meat. Much
> of the "lamb" sold in the UK is "hogget" to an Antipodean farmer.
> Mutton — a female (ewe) or castrated male (wether) sheep having
> more than two permanent incisors in wear.
>
> United States
>
> Under current federal regulations (2014 CFR §65.190),[9] only the term
> 'lamb' is used:
>
> Lamb — ovine animals of any age, including ewes and rams[10]
>
> The terms 'mutton' and 'hogget' are rare [11] in the United States.
> Nevertheless, the exclusive use of 'lamb' in the United States may be
> confusing, particularly if it is assumed that only actual lambs are
> butchered for their meat. Under the previous definition (2010 CFR
> §65.190), 'lamb' meant 'meat, other than mutton (or yearling mutton),
> produced from sheep
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb_and_mutton
>
> > I have to guess but I suspect the lamb shoulder (bone in but cut to
> > thin steaks) may be mutton (3 tooth?). I like it expressly for that
> > flavor.
>
> It probably is if it has a stronger flavour.
Good article and thanks!
Yes, from the looks (a strong dark meat) then it's mutton I like and
most often get.
It would not suprise me in the faintest if a USA person literally was
unaware of this. There is a definate marketing though that 'Lamb' is
better than Hogget or Mutton and prices better so it is hidden from the
average consumer.
This has a detrimental effect on sales in the end. See, Mutton and
Hogget are 'cheaper' even here (though some try to use actual baby lamb
prices for it) but the cooking types used are distinctly different from
what I can tell. So, a USA person will try 'lamb' with a true lamb
recipe and it goes all wrong. They assume lamb is bad instead of
knowing the right cookery for the right stages.
I think the best part here for us poor USA folks is the color
differences. Dead on. I know to get the dark red almost brownish
colored meats for the curries I make. If I want a stew, I use the
middle color (often labeled lamb stew). I ignore the pallid tasting
pink stuff as it doesnt suit me. It tastes the same to me as veal
which is cheaper and I'm not a big fan of veal (baby beef) either.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...g/DSCF3018.jpg
I know the camera isnt the best and this is still defrosting so looks
more white than it is. Mutton I think here. I'm making a curry with
it in a bit.
I'll take more pictures but need to clean the kitchen up. Pretty messy
after a bit of cooking last night (grin).
Carol
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