On 4/27/2015 1:52 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-04-27 1:45 PM, sf wrote:
>
>
>>> Union shops did such a wonderful job with the American auto industry
>>> that it almost went tits up.
>>>
>>
>> Ah - yes, of course, I see the light now. Unions were single handedly
>> responsible for the miserable failure of *American* automobile design
>> (when the same set of American designers were perfectly capable of
>> designing cars for foreign manufacturers that were well engineered and
>> looked great), to say nothing of poor quality control.
>
>
> I sure don't blame the unions for the problems with North American
> cars.

Oh of course not, after all they just assembled them, with utter
indifference to quality.

> They didn't design and approve the manufacture of vehicles with
> inherent problems.

And you think no foreign models ever had "inherent design problems"?

Ever hear the name Yugo?

> The weren't the ones who developed predatory
> warranty problems.

WTF are those?

> The unions weren't responsible for the dealerships
> who viewed their franchises as licence to rip people off on repairs.

That is an after the manufacturing straw man.

Also, there are plenty of state and federal consumer protection laws to
deal with any perceived repair ripoffs.


> The unions were expected to take cuts in pay when business was bad,

You never heard of their job banks?

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...mbol-of-excess

"At its peak around 2006, some 15,000 workers were in the Jobs Bank,
costing GM, Ford and Chrysler billions of dollars. The program
encouraged companies to keep plants running even if the vehicles they
produced were selling poorly.

That, in turn, led to a broad range of habits that added to the
industry's miseries in 2008 -- overproduction, factories forcing excess
cars onto dealers and the proliferation of profit-sapping incentives to
sell those cars.

The Jobs Bank allowed workers to receive 95 percent of their pay while
on layoff. Many workers spent the time volunteering or taking classes,
though some simply reported to a company-designated location and waited
until their plants needed them again.

The Jobs Bank actually was an idea proposed by GM to the UAW during
contract talks. GM officials believed it would never even be necessary
because the company expected to fully use its production capacity,
former executive Bob Lutz wrote in his book Car Guys vs. Bean Counters.

"Exactly the opposite happened," Lutz wrote, "and the Jobs Bank, albeit
to a lesser extent than health care, became yet another major boulder
placed on the backs of America's Big Three as they continued their
footrace against Japan's burden-free car companies."


They didn't take any pay cuts until 2007 when they bankrupted the
automakers, save for Ford.


> but the CEO who was making millions per year were earning <?> bonuses.

Yes, so?

They report to and are accountable to their Board.

Cope.

> It was getting screwed by dealerships

So you spent too much for your cars?

Your problem.

> and screwed on warranty work that send me away from the Big Three.


Warranty work was paid for by the manufacturer.

You had every legal right to demand it be done until correct, at their cost.


> I had great luck with two Mazda
> vehicles and would have bought another one, but Ford had become involved
> with Mazda so I didn't want anything to do with them.

Iow, you didn't know how to tell a US built Mazda from a Japan made one?