"Steve Slatcher" wrote ...........

On 30/08/2014 04:08, st.helier wrote:

>> Without wanting to start an argument (but in the interests of informed
>> discussion) there is no such thing as "biodynamic wine" or "organic
>> wine" - more correctly, these wines could be titled "wines made from
>> grapes grown biodynamically" or "organically".
>
> Er, also in the interests of informed discussion, in the nicest possible
> way I need to tell you that you are are wrong

> As far as I know there has been biodynamic wine for a long time. Here is
> the relevant statement from Demeter, with the standard that covers wine
> production:
>
> http://www.biodynamic.org.uk/certifi...amic-wine.html
>
> Regarding organic wine, you are probably thinking of old EU definitions.
> It used to be the case that you could only claim that the grapes were
> grown organically, but this changed a couple of years ago. And elsewhere
> in the world, including the USA, there have been official definitions of
> organic wine for a longer time:
>
> http://www.frenchfoodintheus.org/spip.php?article3792

Steve, thank you for these links - very interesting reading (particularly
the one in respect to "biodynamic wine")

Perusing the list of "permitted additives" and practises, I wonder why they
bother !!!

Great - biodynamically (certified) grown grapes, but then a myriad of
compromises. Permitted are -

* Machine harvesting
* Use of plastic to transfer material (wine, juice)
* Addition of sugar (even non-certified)
* Addition of water to mash / must !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* Use of bought in yeast (in some cases)
* Use of SO2
* Use of acidity regulators
* Use of non-certified and non-organic fining agents.

Here in NZ these are several producers who grow using biodynamic principals.

However, they do not use the expression "Biodynamic Wine" or "Organic
Wine".

They chose to label their wines "Wine from certified biodynamic or certified
organic grapes"

To me, so called "Biodynamic wines" are made from grapes grown using the
principles of biodynamic viticulture.

As "santiago" has stated - once in the winery human intervention takes over.

To me, the "standards" are no more than a compromise to allow wines to be
called "biodynamic" - as a marketing gimmick, and I am surprised that the
Demeter organisation has allowed these compromises.

Initially, I thought that the whole principal of biodynamic farming was in
the realms of fantasy.

But, I do know several people growing fruit and vegetables - and dairy
farmers and they have made me reconsider my stance.

But, the fruits and raw milk are not compromised in any way.