> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:18:10 GMT, "katie" >
wrote:
>
> >...
> >> I have learned that vegIns not only won't encourage
> >> consumption of meat which involves fewer deaths than some veg
> >> products, but they often very strongly *oppose* anyone else who
> >> does encourage it.
> >>
> >you know what drives me nuts on this board? other than all the
negativity
> >and namecalling that mike charlton is talking about, that is. the
> >generalizations. all this 'all vegans' this and that. we aren't a
bloody
> >cult, we are each individuals with our own ideas and lifestyles.
>
> When you have seen the same reactions, without even one
> exception, for five years, you tend to develop a feeling about
> a group of people.

alright, i'll give you that : )
>
> >i for one
> >encourage meat eaters to eat organic, grass-fed, free-range animal
products.
>
> I would like to see some examples of that. As yet I have not,
> and really don't expect to.

meh. i always try to get my stepmom (who does more of the shopping than i
do) to buy organic & 'free range' stuff, i talk to her about it all the
time. and on the odd occasion she does, she announces it and i always give
her a huge thumbs up, even if it means that there's a dead chicken sitting
in the fridge making me feel sad. but it's hard; she's one of those folks
(like most folks, it seems) who will watch a news piece about some study
linking pesticide use to childhood leukemia or something, and then as soon
as it's over she'll say 'i think we're doing our lawn tomorrow,' in a
completely detached way. as if what you learn about is completely
disconnected from your actions. it's so bloody weird.
>
> >it's silly to try to force a hard-core steak-lover to give up everything
> >they're attached to and pick up a slab o' tofu. obviously wasted effort
and
> >doomed to failure. so i'd say hey, here's how you can lessen your impact
on
> >animals and the earth.
>
> How do they respond? Do you ever point out that some types of meat
> involve fewer deaths than some types of vegetable products, including
> bread, cereal, tofu and rice milk?

my mother tells me to shut up, since anything non-fluffish that comes out of
my mouth makes her eyes glaze over. work, no. school, no. makes her brain
hurt too much, i guess, unless it's bloody gossip or boy talk. *sigh*. so
naturally, if i ever mention that something is good for the earth, i usually
just get an eye roll. and usually also an 'enough already,' as if using
your thinking parts spoils a good mindless pursuit. why yes, i am bitter
: ) on the other hand, my stepmom isn't so bad like that, thankfully. we
don't happen to talk too much anyhow, but she won't really talk about this
stuff with me so much, she usually just cuts off the conversations pretty
quick. her whole argument is that she doesn't want to buy any organics or
anything, since she thinks the stuff is secretly exactly the same as the
other stuff, except with a jacked up price, as in, grown exactly the same
way but with a different label. me, i'd rather take my chances on the
labelling side than the chemicals side. but for me, talking with her, the
vegetables/veggie milks/tofu impact stuff never comes up (nor the meat
impact, for that matter, except for me saying 'why not buy this kind of meat
instead, since it's possibly nicer to the chickens and not so bad for the
environment), since she doesn't actually eat the veggie stuff. like, ever.
she's a hard-core butter, condensed milk, pickled herring kinda lass. and
she eats lots of bread, but no rice really since she's trying to lose weight
(i'll never understand why she thinks white egg bread is going to be better
for her waistline than brown rice or 12 grain bread...meh?) she tries some
of my cooking sometimes, which is nice n' charitable of her, but there's no
way in hell i'd every try to 'convert' her or anything. i just want her to
eat healthier so she doesn't die on me (ie less buttery fattening crap, more
vegetables). but i can't lecture her since she's not a blood relative : )
>
> >always going for a more sustainable way of doing
> >things. some folks like to blindly follow dogmas, whether they are vegan
or
> >any other ways of thinking. but that's just a kind of person; just cause
> >you've run across some vegans who don't think critically, doesn't mean
you
> >should put us all in the same box.
>
> It's not so much that I've run into some who don't, as it is that I've
run
> into none who do. Not one! You may be the first, but that remains to be
> seen, if it's to be seen at all.

it's hard to assess these things on these bloody newsgroups. always better
convos and better ideas about people when you can hash it out over some good
neutral food : )
>
> >you seem to have some interesting and
> >valuable stuff to contribute here,
>
> Thanks. That's certainly an unusual thing to say.

your welcome : ) it's true; i might not always like the way in which you
say things (gets a little repetitive sometimes with the cut n' paste posting
: ) ) but i read it just the same. best to keep an open mind for those of
us on all sides of the fence.
>
> >why not try to contribute in a positive
> >way and try not to alienate folks with the 'evil vegans' generalizations?
>
> Well, maybe in the future I can say something more like: 'I've only
> encountered one veg*n who cares enough about human influence on
> animals, to encourage consumption of meat which involves fewer deaths
> than some vegetable products...', but as I said that still remains to be
> seen. So far I have yet to see it.