On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 01:18:10 GMT, "katie" > wrote:

>...
>> I have learned that vegIns not only won't encourage
>> consumption of meat which involves fewer deaths than some veg
>> products, but they often very strongly *oppose* anyone else who
>> does encourage it.
>>
>you know what drives me nuts on this board? other than all the negativity
>and namecalling that mike charlton is talking about, that is. the
>generalizations. all this 'all vegans' this and that. we aren't a bloody
>cult, we are each individuals with our own ideas and lifestyles.

When you have seen the same reactions, without even one
exception, for five years, you tend to develop a feeling about
a group of people.

>i for one
>encourage meat eaters to eat organic, grass-fed, free-range animal products.

I would like to see some examples of that. As yet I have not,
and really don't expect to.

>it's silly to try to force a hard-core steak-lover to give up everything
>they're attached to and pick up a slab o' tofu. obviously wasted effort and
>doomed to failure. so i'd say hey, here's how you can lessen your impact on
>animals and the earth.

How do they respond? Do you ever point out that some types of meat
involve fewer deaths than some types of vegetable products, including
bread, cereal, tofu and rice milk?

>always going for a more sustainable way of doing
>things. some folks like to blindly follow dogmas, whether they are vegan or
>any other ways of thinking. but that's just a kind of person; just cause
>you've run across some vegans who don't think critically, doesn't mean you
>should put us all in the same box.

It's not so much that I've run into some who don't, as it is that I've run
into none who do. Not one! You may be the first, but that remains to be
seen, if it's to be seen at all.

>you seem to have some interesting and
>valuable stuff to contribute here,

Thanks. That's certainly an unusual thing to say.

>why not try to contribute in a positive
>way and try not to alienate folks with the 'evil vegans' generalizations?

Well, maybe in the future I can say something more like: 'I've only
encountered one veg*n who cares enough about human influence on
animals, to encourage consumption of meat which involves fewer deaths
than some vegetable products...', but as I said that still remains to be
seen. So far I have yet to see it.