On 03/18/2013 02:35 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message

>> Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
>> can't. You missed the point.
>
> You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
> that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!

"cellulose" is called "bran" in humans. They derive no nutritious
from. Grass is cellulose.

>
>>> Because cows can eat corn too.
>>
>> True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
>> [2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
>> lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
>> We are not carrion eaters.
>
> Cite that corn gives them ulcers?

I already did. That was the "[2] [3]" in my sentence.

> And we certainly can be carion eaters.
> Ever watch Honey Boo Boo?

No

> Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
> butcher it?

Oh that can't be good. I have heard of American Indians that
will leave a dead diseased animal to rot.

>>
>>> Are you saying that
>>> we can't eat corn?
>>
>> We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
>> believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
>> carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
>> burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.
>
> No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.

Corn:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/carbcounts/a/corn.htm

Glycemic Index for Corn Glycemic index studies of
corn report averages of anywhere from 37 to 62.
An average GI of 54 is commonly used.

Table sugar:

http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide...weeteners.html

Sucrose Sugar 65



>>
>>> These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
>>> cows anyway.
>>
>> They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
>> not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
>> Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.
>
> Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims and
> just expect us to belive what you say!

Not off the wall at all. I had 13 cites in the last letter
I wrote you. Missed this one. Sorry.

http://praisemoves.com/2012/04/cattl...d-cow-disease/


>
>>>> We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
>>>> carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
>>>> then we are just like bears.
>>>
>>> No we're not.
>>
>> Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
>> are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
>> (cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.
>
> Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore

Sorry I did not cite this as I thought you took biology in
college.


>>
>> Their are four basic type of mammals:
>> herbivores
>> omnivores
>> carnivores
>> carrion eaters
>>
>> We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
>> Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...
>
> I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.

Hot Dogs!

Eating carrion is really not a good idea.

>
>>> Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.
>>
>> 100% agree.
>>
>>>>
>>>> By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
>>>> See what I am getting at?
>>>>
>>> Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.
>>
>> Play nice with the other children in the sand box.
>
> Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish claims
> as though they were fact.
>>
>>> Cite for
>>> lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?
>>
>> Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
>> factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
>> of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
>> and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]
>
> That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
> attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and had
> no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.

Then you got your animal nutrition from somewhere. Did you suppliment
or eat dairy, fish, etc.?

>>
>>>
>>>> Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.
>>>
>>> It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
>>> the
>>> face of this earth.
>>
>> Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
>> to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
>> trying to offend you.
>
> Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
> laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of this
> clap trap.
>>
>> If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
>> any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
>> science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and risk
>> death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.
>
> Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!

I gave you lots of cites to nerve damage. Did you find them
to be lying?


>>
>> Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.
>>
>> We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
>> not survive as pure vegetarians.
>
> We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would eat
> what they ate. And it is not available to us.
>>
>> That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
>> picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
>> milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.
>
> Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
> dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
> even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do

First, play nice with the other kids in the sandbox.

Second. Vegan is a particular type of vegetarian. I am
using the term vegetarian as the master set of different
types of vegetarians. Some Vegi's eat the things you
cite and other do not. I was very clear what I was
talking about. Stop reading offense were their is none.
I am your friend, not your enemy.

..
>>
>> "Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
>> themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
>> Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his own.
>> Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
>> the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
>> meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
>> and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.
>
> You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.

Who am I insulting? The condescending ones? I guess I am
insulting them by calling their behavior condescending.
They are condescending.

By the way, there are lots of nice vegetarians that don't
condescend. In my humble experience, they way outnumber
the condescending ones.


>> Trust me, is because they are fat.
>
> No. I really don't think so.

We will have to disagree as friends

>>
>>> I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
>>> I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.
>>
>> Keep those friends!
>
>>> My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
>>> company. His weight didn't affect that at all.
>>
>> There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
>> men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
>> happens to women when they give into to social pressure
>> and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)
>
> Oh good grief!
>>
>> Men suffer from being "success objects".
>
> Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
> coming across as a bigot.

Women as sex objects and men a as success objects. That is a common
observation. It does not make me a bigot. But, your observation
does make you come across as looking to pick fights were there
are none.

>>
>> Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
>> strength of their character. Not what they look like.
>
> Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course judging
> is human nature too.

You must make judgments to survive. The point is to make
proper judgments.

>
>
>> 1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf
>
> Something from 1981?
>>
>> 2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/
>
> A blog?
>>
>> 3)
>> http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
>>
>> 4)
>> http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77
>
> Something from 2004?
>>
>> 5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy
>
> A Google search? Did that myself. No cite there said that lack of it
> caused neuropathy. One cite said that it might.
>>
>> 6)
>> http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
>>
> 2004?
>
>> 7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm
>
> Damn, Skippy! Your own cite proved you wrong there!
>>
>> 8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm
>>
> We weren't talking about vitamin B deficiencies. And most vegans do know to
> eat nutritional yeast to prevent that.
>> 9)
>> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx
>
> A cite from a quack? Not even going to read that.
>>
>> 10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat
>
> 2008.
>>
>> 11)
>> http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/
>
> Not interested in that.
>>
>> 12)
>> http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm
>
> Okay...
>>
>> 13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/
>
> Okay...
>
> You threw up a bunch of crap links, wasting my time. And not one thing
> proves what you said about lack of L Carnitine causing neuropathy.

That is because you did not read them. You just want to pick fights.