On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 12:39:39 -0800 (PST), "Mr. N.A.Cho"
> wrote:

>On Jan 2, 3:37*pm, dh@. wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 09:07:42 -0800, Goo wrote:
>> >On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:10:52 -0500, dh@. wrote:
>>
>> >>On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 11:35:25 -0800, Goo wussed:
>>
>> >>>On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 15:04:29 -0500, dh@. wrote:
>>
>> >>>>On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:09:30 -0800, Dutch > wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>Lord Infomouse wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 12/24/2012 2:30 PM, dh@. wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>> * * *They do Goob, even though they're not aware of the position
>> >>>>>>> they're in.
>> >>>>>>> LOL...and that particular fact is a very significant part OF their pov
>> >>>>>>> Goo. If
>> >>>>>>> they were aware of their own position it would be a lot different but
>> >>>>>>> they're
>> >>>>>>> not and you couldn't make them aware of it even if you tried, Goober.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> It's just very surprising that he would admit he doesn't care about
>> >>>>>>>>> the animals.
>> >>>>>>>>> I expect him to try lying that he actually does at some point, but
>> >>>>>>>>> then again he
>> >>>>>>>>> might be afraid to say anything more about it at all. No doubt he
>> >>>>>>>>> doesn't want
>> >>>>>>>>> to and that's why you being his brother have taken over for his lame
>> >>>>>>>>> ass. You
>> >>>>>>>>> people are pathetic Goob...amusing, but pathetic.
>>
>> >>>>>> Part of the problem that I see is that you have made Goober and Rupert
>> >>>>>> both your enemies, where Rupert is clearly much smarter than Goober and
>> >>>>>> more adept at argument. *Goober likes to declare his opinion as fact and
>> >>>>>> a lot of people know that he is wrong. *Rupert is just afraid to commit
>> >>>>>> to any term or phrase that hasn't been laid out well.
>>
>> >>>>>Everybody who bothers to figure out what a load of bullshit he's pushing
>> >>>>>is his enemy.
>>
>> >>>> * *Rupert is bullshitting by claiming he can't comprehend the distinction
>> >>>>between lives of positive and negative value imo.
>>
>> >>>What Woopert has said, correctly, is that you can't give any coherent
>> >>>meaning to "lives of possitive [sic] value" except to bullshit
>> >>>tautologically. *That is completely true: *all you can offer as
>> >>>explanation is that a life of possitive [sic] value is one that doesn't
>> >>>have too much negative value in it.
>>
>> >> * *Negative value caused by what, Goo?
>>
>> >The cruel treatment you advocate and personally inflict, *Goo*.
>>
>> >Your bullshit about "decent lives of possitive [sic] value" is
>> >tautological bullshit, *Goo*. *You can't give it any real meaning. *It's
>> >incoherent cracker bullshit.
>>
>> * * If you're too stupid to comprehend "the distinction between "lives of
>> positive value" and "lives of negative value"" then that's why it seems
>> incoherent to you Goo. You brother Rupert claims to be too stupid to comprehend
>> it, and now you do too. In the past you've pretended you could comprehend and so
>> has your brother Goob, but now you both want people to believe you're too
>> stupid. LOL...you people are amusing.... So Goober, since you both want to
>> pretend you're too stupid to comprehend, what do you think you gain from that?
>> LOL...what do you think you gain by acting that clueless and stupid, Goo??? Your
>> pet food animals idea and your claim that life isn't a benefit both peg you as
>> extremely stupid Goob. What do you think you gain by acting even MORE stupid,
>> Goo?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>>If not then he's mentally
>> >>>>restricted in ways that no one in my sixth grade class was, since we all could
>> >>>>do it in sixth grade. Since he's an eliminationist we know he like yourself is a
>> >>>>maniacal extremist. He takes the extreme of wanting to see all domestic animals
>> >>>>eliminated, yet can't comprehend a distinction between lives of positive and
>> >>>>negative value so he claims. That means he can't appreciate any distinction
>> >>>>between the value of life for livestock, humans, pets, or wildlife. IF that's
>> >>>>really the case then since he wants to see domestic animals eliminated and can't
>> >>>>appreciate any distinction between the value of life for them and wildlife it
>> >>>>seems he should also want the elimination of wildlife too. Since he can't
>> >>>>appreciate any distinction between the value of life for livestock and humans he
>> >>>>should also want the elimination of humans. Etc...
>>
>> >>>There's that bullshit about your sixth grade class again;
>>
>> >> * *It was either fifth or sixth grade Goob and I'm being overly generous by
>> >>saying it was sixth. LOL... I'm thinking how funny it would be if one of the
>> >>kids was as stupid as Rupert... If we studied it in sixth grade and discussed it
>> >>with fifth graders, if one of the fifth graders was so stupid that he "didn't
>> >>believe the distinction between "lives of positive value" and "lives of negative
>> >>value" means anything"", I wonder if word of his handicap and incredible
>> >>stupidity would become common knowledge around the school because he's so
>> >>different like a kid who can't speak English, or who is color blind, or walks
>> >>with a bad limp, etc.... He probably would and would be in special
>> >>ed...LOL...but here you people act like he's not stupid...LOL!!!...
>>
>> >>>also bullshit
>> >>>about "mentally restricted."
>>
>> >> * *Goober Rupert is either HORRIBLY restricted which could explain why he was
>> >>stupid enough to become a misnomer addict in the first place, or he's lying
>>
>> >No.
>>
>> * * LOL!!! Yes Goob, those are the only two possibilities that there
>> are...LOL...it's amusing to think you might not even be aware of that.
>>
>> >There is no "restriction"
>>
>> * * He's either horribly restricted or lying, Goo. Those are the only two
>> alternatives Goob.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>about being that stupid and he's really not. If he's lying, then why Goo? If
>> >>he's not lying he's horribly restricted mentally. But Goob, he has shown signs
>> >>that he's not that stupid in the past, meaning it's almost certain that he's
>> >>lying now. So we're left with: Why is he lying Goob? Why is he lying to make
>> >>himself look more horribly stupid than he honestly is, Goo?
>>
>> >>>You are the one suffering from a limited intellect. *You are stupid.
>> >>>You are congenitally stupid, and as if that weren't bad enough, you're
>> >>>willfully even more stupid. *You *choose* stupidity.
>>
>> >> * *You're stupid enough to believe your pet food cow story Goober. If you were
>> >>stupid enough to believe it for years even with people pointing out your
>> >>mistake, and since you WERE then you still ARE now Goo. It's not like you got
>> >>less stupid Goob, even though after years of having it pointed out to you you
>> >>finally learned that there ARE NO pet food cattle much less any that are raised
>> >>for twelve years just for the purpose. MAYBE you finally learned that, but then
>> >>again maybe you still believe in them, Goo....you were stupid enough in the past
>> >>and are still as stupid as you were, so maybe you're stupid enough to STILL
>> >>believe in them.......
>>
>> >y
>>
>> * * You still DO believe in them afawk Goo.
>>
>> >ou have created your own crippling mental
>> >restrictions.
>>
>> * * Like what Goob?
>>
>> >You are the restricted one, Goo.
>>
>> * * You now claim to be as restricted as your brother Goo...LOL...so that makes
>> you the restricted two, not one, Goo. Not only are you now claiming to be as
>> restricted as your brother but we also have strong evidence that you disagree
>> with yourself about what you think you believe Goo, like:
>>
>> "The opportunity for potential livestock to "get to
>> experience life" deserves *NO* moral consideration
>> whatever" - Goo
>>
>> "I give the lives of animals that exist *LOTS*
>> of consideration." - Goo
>>
>> "the "getting to experience life" deserves NO
>> moral consideration, and is given none" - Goo
>>
>> "I also give the not-yet-begun lives of animals
>> that are "in the pipeline", so to speak, a lot of
>> consideration" - Goo
>>
>> "There is no "consideration" to be given." - Goo
>>
>> "We ARE NOT, and NEVER WERE, talking about whether
>> existing animals "benefit" from living." - Goo
>>
>> "Set your clock back by an hour" - Goo
>>
>> "I didn't say to set your clock back an hour" - Goo
>>
>> "When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the
>> existence we know" - Goo
>>
>> "I never said they "move from 'pre-existence'"" - Goo
>>
>> "we don't know if that move improves its welfare" - Goo
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>> * *Goo lies that I'm a convicted felon. Goo lies that I don't consider quality
>> >>>>of life. Goo lies that I don't appreciate life for billions of livestock
>> >>>>animals. Goo claims life is not the benefit it so clearly appears to be, yet
>> >>>>can't even begin to pretend he has any clue what could prevent it from being one
>> >>>>(though he's revealed that he thinks it has something to do with the
>> >>>>pre-existent state). Goo claims to oppose the misnomer yet can never produce any
>> >>>>of his supposed opposition. Goo has suggested that there are multiple Ruperts
>> >>>>yet can't even pretend to explain what he thought he was trying to talk about.
>> >>>>Goo has insisted that some livestock are raised for no other reason than to
>> >>>>become pet food. Goo has lied that he was a Marine. Goo has lied more than once
>> >>>>that he has a PhD. Goo has dishonestly pretended to be dozens of different
>> >>>>people, often supporting and praising himselves while doing so. Etc...- Hide quoted text -
>>
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>
>I know of some vegetarians that only eat certain types of meat, for
>example, one won't eat pig products because pigs are higher
>functioning mammals versus a cow or checken.

It depends on the quality of life. Because pigs have an instinct to root for
food it could be frustrating for them to be kept on a concrete floor what won't
allow rooting. However, that instinct could be satisfied by them being able to
root around in their feed troughs. If they're fed dry feed it might not help
with that, but if they're fed a mash or something they can enjoy rooting around
in that could improve the quality of life for them. They also like to wallow in
water to keep themselves cool, but though they can't do that on commercial pig
farms they're sprayed with water or something to keep them cool. They have to be
or they would overheat and die.

Most commercially raised cattle and chickens have decent lives of positive
value imo, except for most commercially raised laying hens who are kept in small
cages that are overly restrictive in more than one way. However, their parents,
broiler chickens and their parents are kept in large cage free open houses and
most of them have decent lives of positive value imo. I encourage you and
everyone to BUY CAGE FREE EGGS! They're more expensive usually by about a
dollar, but buying them contributes to a method that provides more lives of
positive value than negative value for the birds, the opposite of which is true
for most commercial layers who are kept in small cages. Buying cage free eggs is
a way to directly support better animal welfare and show that at least some
people care enough to spend a little extra money to support more animal friendly
farming methods.
Veal calves don't have what most of us would consider a decent life except
for maybe the first few days before they're taken from their mother. After that
they're kept in a small area and fed nothing but milk so they stay iron
deficient and their meat stays pale. Most other cattle have decent lives imo,
and even when beef cattle are taken to the stock yards it seems life should
still be good for the majority of them, since cattle like nothing better than to
eat, and they like eating grain better than anything else. Cattle like to eat
grain so much in fact, that if they accidentally get access to all they want of
it they can and often will eat themselves to death. That being the case,
stockyards don't seem like something that should cause more suffering than
pleasure for cattle imo. Dairy cattle in general seem to have it made, imo. I've
been on several dairy farms, and the cattle on those farms appeared to be well
cared for and have decent lives.