On Oct 16, 4:45*pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> On 10/16/2012 7:14 AM, Rupert wrote:
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> > On Oct 16, 4:09 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >> On 10/16/2012 3:25 AM, Rupert wrote:
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> >>> On Oct 15, 9:49 pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> >>>> On 10/15/2012 12:15 PM, Rupert wrote:
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> >>>>> On Oct 15, 9:12 pm, Antonio Veranos > wrote:
> >>>>>> [George Plimpton, ]
> >>>>>> [Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:00:53 -0700]
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> >>>>>> : > Well, it was definitely amusing to me,
> >>>>>> :
> >>>>>> : Because you're off your meds again.
>
> >>>>>> If you ever want to point out that all vegans are hypocrites whether
> >>>>>> they know it or not, point out that plankton are animals and see if they
> >>>>>> can figure out why this is relevant to veganism.
>
> >>>>> It would not be relevant to my motivations for being vegan, unless the
> >>>>> plankton were capable of suffering and I were in some way responsible
> >>>>> for them experiencing more suffering than would otherwise be the case.
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> >>>> You are indeed responsible for animals of the field suffering more than
> >>>> they otherwise would if you were to produce all your own food.
>
> >>> As I say, this is indeed true, and if it were within my power to
> >>> reduce my contribution to this suffering by some means that did not
> >>> involve sacrificing other opportunities to prevent suffering from
> >>> taking place, then I would be somewhat motivated to adopt that means.
>
> >> In other words, being "vegan" is purely a "lifestyle" issue, not any
> >> issue of abiding by principle - exactly what was claimed.
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> > I wouldn't really call it a lifestyle issue.
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> That's exactly what it is.
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> > In my case, it's a
> > pattern of behaviour motivated by a desire to reduce my contribution
> > to suffering. I haven't advocated any moral principles in this
> > thread.
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> You ****wit: *presumably your desire to reduce your contribution to
> animal suffering is motivated by some moral principle.

Why do you think that when I explicitly told you that I am fairly
skeptical that there are any moral truths?

> *It has been very
> well demonstrated to you that "veganism" may well not be, and most
> likely *is* not*, the best means to reduce your contribution to animal
> suffering. *You /could/ pursue some other "lifestyle" that would yield a
> greater reduction.
>

Well, I'm happy to listen to any suggestions you have.

> The bigger problem, of course, is you can't coherently explain why you
> even ought to try to reduce your contribution to animal suffering;

It just happens to be something that I am motivated to do.

> nor,
> if we accept without further examination the proposition that one ought
> to reduce one's contribution to animal suffering, can you say why you
> should be allowed to let your other "lifestyle" wishes - e.g. to be a
> telemarketer or maths professor - in any way lessen your reduction
> efforts. *You are not doing all you can. *Saying that you're doing all
> you can subject to the constraint that you don't stop pursuing
> mathematics indicates there is no meaningful principle behind it.

Being a maths researcher probably helps me to have more opportunities
to reduce suffering, by making charitable donations for example, more
so than would be the case if I were spending my time producing all my
own food.

I never made any claim. I said that I was somewhat motivated to make
some effort to reduce my contribution to suffering, but also sometimes
considerations about my own well-being come into it too. I never
claimed to be articulating any principle. I simply was explaining what
motivates me to do it.