On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:52:17 -0700, Goo wrote:

>*you*, Goo, think of them as existing
>"in some sense"

"The only way that the concept "benefit from existence"
can begin to make sense semantically is if one assumes
a pre-existent state" - Goo

""Pre-existence": this is Goo's problem, and only Goo's
problem." - Goo

"Whether or not some entity enjoys life once it does exist
is *NOT* the topic." - Goo

"you still cannot demonstrate, ever, why it is "beneficial"
for souls to incarnate and experience this meaning." - Goo

"We are not and never were talking about benefits for
existing entities" - Goo

"When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the
existence we know, we don't know if that move improves
its welfare, degrades it, or leaves it unchanged." - Goo

"EVEN WITH the very best animal welfare conditions one
might provide: they STILL might not be as good as the
"pre-existence" state was" - Goo

"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them: it does
not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo

"Unless we know with certainty that the entity's welfare
improves when it moves from "pre-existence" into the
life we can detect" - Goo