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Rupert Rupert is offline
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Default ANIMAL RIGHTS BILL 1 - Tom Regan speaks.

On Apr 27, 8:06*pm, "Dutch" > wrote:
> "Rupert" > wrote
>
> >> >>> Yes, there is, based on observation of primates like Koko the gorilla
> >> >>> who have been taught sign language,

>
> >> >> Does not demonstrate that anything "matters to her."

>
> >> > Of course things matter to Koko,

>
> >> They don't. *She has no awareness that there is a world, that she will
> >> some day no longer be in it.

>
> > She does understand the concept of death,

>
> On what do you base this?
>


She has discussions about it with her caregivers.

> > and she is aware of various
> > aspects of the world just as you and I are

>
> No, not like that, human awareness is not like non-human awareness. <I was
> going to elaborate but I shouldn't have to>
>


I didn't say that her awareness was similar to ours in every respect.
I said it was a property we had in common, which is true. Also, her
awareness of the world is quite similar to what Ball's son's awareness
of the world was at the age of two.

> > and just as your son was
> > when he was two years old.

>
> His son possessed the capability to become a PhD in mathematics or a great
> philosopher or musician, the ape is permanently two years old.
>


I think Ball's son is retarded, isn't he?

Koko is learning the letters of the alphabet, she is not "permanently
two years old". She has less potential for cognitive development than
Ball's son, even if I am correct that Ball's son is retarded. So what?


> > She has similar linguistic and cognitive
> > abilities to your son at the age of two. It is extremely obvious that
> > things matter to her, and that she is aware of the world. She also has
> > some understanding of the concept of death, although she becomes
> > fidgety and uncomfortable when asked to discuss her own death. It is
> > not clear to what extent she is aware of her own mortality.

>
> All unsupported supposition.


No.