On 4/25/2012 1:19 PM, Rupert wrote:
> On Apr 25, 7:11 pm, George > wrote:
>> On 4/25/2012 5:30 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 24, 7:52 am, George > wrote:
>>>> On 7/30/2007 7:07 AM, pearl wrote:
>>
>>>>> ANIMAL RIGHTS BILL 1 - Tom Regan speaks.
>>>>> Video (8.38 minutes)
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADhNch30Img
>>
>>>> Regan says, "They [animals] are not only in the world, they are aware
>>>> of it, and also what happens to them." Bullshit. Animals are *not*
>>>> aware that they are in the world, they don't even know there's a world,
>>>> and they have no concept whatever of any "fate" in store for them.
>>
>>> The claim is that animals are aware of the world. To quote Ludwig
>>> Wittgenstein, "The world is everything that is the case."
>>
>> Sophistry.
>>
>
> What, what Ludwig Wittgenstein said? How would you define the world,
> thenm?
>
>>> Animals are
>>> aware of some aspects of reality. They are not aware of the existence
>>> of the planet earth or the universe, and they are not able to think at
>>> a sufficient level of abstraction to be able to think to themselves
>>> "The world is everything that is the case", but they are aware of some
>>> aspects of reality, and that is enough for the claim to be true.
>>
>> Animals are not aware that they exist *in* reality. No animal
>> contemplates in any way the relationship between itself and the rest of
>> reality.
>>
>
> The claim was that they are aware of the world. All that it takes for
> this claim to be true is for them to be aware of some aspects of
> reality.

No, that's wrong. Aspects of reality are not reality itself. The tale
of the six blind men and the elephant ought to tell you that.


>>>> Regan: "And what happens to them matters to them." Wrong.
>>
>>> Actually, it is very obviously true.
>>
>> No, it is very obviously false. *Nothing* matters to them.
>
> These claims are quite absurd.

They're not. They're correct. Because:


>
>> "Matters to them" is completely alien to animal mentation.

Because of that.


>>
>>>> "Like us, they bring a unified psychological presence to the world."
>>>> Bullshit - pure mealymouthed psychobabble.
>>
>>> It's not bullshit.
>>
>> It's unadulterated bullshit.
>