On 3/15/2012 12:35 AM, Rupert wrote:
> On Mar 15, 6:07 am, George > wrote:
>> On 3/14/2012 8:28 PM, Rupert wrote:
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>>> On Mar 15, 2:51 am, > wrote:
>>>>> > wrote
>>>>> On Mar 14, 10:04 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>> One compelling argument that you have definitely seen was given in great
>>>>>> detail in the vegan shuffle argument.
>>
>>>>> Perhaps you can tell me which one you have in mind.
>>
>>>> The "shuffle". The vegan's core belief is that by going vegan one is no
>>>> longer complicit in animal suffering. When the fallaciousness of that belief
>>>> is pointed out to them they start shuffling. This takes various forms, such
>>>> as a retreat to the "less suffering" position or a switch to the "injustice"
>>>> position.
>>
>>> How is that evidence that the motivation for going vegan is not to
>>> help animals?
>>
>> Nice try, woopert. We're not talking about your alleged initial motive.
>> What I said is that your supposed concern is fake. The proof of that
>> is that when it is conclusively demonstrated that the *sole* step you
>> take - refraining from putting animal parts in your mouth - does not
>> lead to the conclusion you assumed, you nonetheless stick with it, and
>> do nothing more.
>>
>> You began by believing one or both of two things:
>>
>> 1. Refraining from consuming animal parts would mean, necessarily,
>> that you weren't violating the "rights" of any animals.
>>
>> 2. Refraining from consuming animal parts would mean, necessarily,
>> that you were causing less harm to animals than *all* meat consumers.
>>
>> It cannot be doubted or disputed that you believed one or both of these
>> things. If you didn't, then there could not possibly be any rational
>> basis for concluding that you ought not put animal parts in your mouth.
>>
>> It has been shown beyond all dispute that neither is true:
>>
>
> What I began by believing is

....that you were living a "cruelty free 'lifestyle'." You were and are
wrong.


>> 1. The "rights" of animals are routinely violated in the course of
>> producing the things you consume.
>>
>> 2. Refraining from putting animal parts in your mouth in no way shows
>> that you are causing less harm than *all* meat consumers.
>
> I think the meat consumers who are causing less harm than me would be
> rare indeed,

You have no way of knowing.

It's entirely the point, shithead.