****wit David Harrison - THE Goober - wussed:
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:40:09 -0800, George Plimpton helpfully contributed:
>
>>
>> “Veganism” *is* bullshit. Here’s why. It claims to be an ethical
>> response to an ethical problem, but 1) there is no agreement that there
>> is an ethical problem
>
> "the "getting to experience life" deserves NO moral
> consideration, and is given none; the deliberate killing
> of animals for use by humans DOES deserve moral
> consideration, and gets it." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "the moral harm, *if any*, caused by killing them is greater in magnitude
> than ANY benefit they might derive from "decent lives" - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> ""giving them life" does NOT mitigate the wrongness of
> their deaths" - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "Life "justifying" death is the
> stupidest goddamned thing you ever wrote." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "NO livestock benefit from being farmed." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "No farm animals benefit from farming." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "the nutritionally unnecessary choice deliberately to kill an animal
> ALWAYS causes a moral harm greater in magnitude than . . . the
> moral "benefit" realized by the animal in existing at all" - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "There is nothing to "appreciate" about the livestock "getting
> to experience life" - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "no matter how "decent" the conditions are, the deliberate killing
> of the animals erases all of it." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "Causing animals to be born and "get to experience life"
> (in ****wit's wretched prose) is no mitigation at all for
> killing them." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


> . . .
>> 2) the response is ethically empty.
>
> "People who don't want them to exist should be "vegans".
> "Vegans" aren't interested in contributing to lives of any
> quality for farm animals: they don't want there to be farm
> animals." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> ""vegans" are interested in their influence on animals,
> ****wit. They want everyone to be "vegan", which would
> mean no animals raised for food and other products. That's
> an influence, whether you like it or not." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> ""Veg*nism" certainly doesn't harm any living farm animals.
> And if everyone adopted "veg*nism", no farm animals would
> live in bad conditions." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "you MUST believe that it makes moral sense not
> to raise the animals as the only way to prevent the harm that
> results from killing them." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.


>
> "There is no "selfishness" involved in wanting farm animals not to
> exist as a step towards creating a more just world." - Prof. Geo. Plimpton

True.