bob wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Can't argue with what you said. I live 40 miles north of NYC so I know
> exactly how much rain you recieved last year and now this year. It's
> interesting that combing them down decreases vigor. I guess it has to
> do with apical dominance. Do you get alot of suckers near the ground
> every year??? If you "sucker" them maybe you can let them grow until
> they get in the way of the downward shoots. Also I assume you have
> grass in the row middles and iff your vines are THAT vigourous maybe
> you should try growing grass UNDER the vines also. What do you do for
> excess water??? My site is VERY sandy and the vigor while still strong
> is average I would say. BTW, what was the brix on your Chambourcin
> last year?? I could only get 16 out of mine.
>
> Bob
Bob,

Funny, I live 40 mi. dead west of NYC.

Apical vigor is exactly the issue with forcing the canes downward. It's
amazing how a shoot slows down once its redirected. Linear growth
becomes more manageable, but the axial buds at the high point, usually
on the bend, pop and try to become leaders. They're easily dealt with by
rubbing off. Later in the season the game switches to lateral pinching,
but that's a good practice for all systems I think.

I never really tried using suckers to devigorate a vine, but I've
thought about it. I'm working out the other parameters of my vines
still. Soon, probably. Do you know anything about the technique?

Yes, I've got lawn grass in the aisles, kept nice & neat because it's
very visible from the house. Directly under the vines there's an 18" or
24" strip of landscape fabric with crushed stone atop. This makes mowing
a lot easier, but additional grass, especially unmowed, would probably
be better from a vigor standpoint.

Because of the slope, almost all rows have excellent surface drainage,
but subsurface moisture is pretty high, as my place has quite a few
small springs & streams. Something I just have to live with. One block
of vines is actually on top of an old vegetable garden, so you can
imagine the fertility.

Last year my Chambourcin came in at 16 Brix too, on Oct 10. A few
bunches left to hang made it to 20 Brix by Nov 2, but they didn't look
too good. On the whole, the crop was a disaster. Your experiences?