Darwin Vander Stelt wrote:

> I am in nampa, Idaho, at about 2600' elevation. Its a terrific place to
> grow grapes in some respects, less so in others. After 3 crops and 6 yrs
> of
> growing (took 2 years to get planted) I have not yet sprayed, with
> anything, and have had no molds, mildews fungus etc, and no insect damage
> either except maybe some wasps. We have a very dry climate, and the
> daytime temperature will get above 95 degrees in mid June. Night time
> temperatures are generally under 70, and by the time the grapes are
> ripening, in the 50's. Our climate is quite similar to the Prosser
> Washington area, which is becoming a very popular wine growing area, with
> something like 300 new vinyards. We use drip irrigation, have a very
> fertile soil, use own rooted plants, and plant vigor is pretty high.
> The 4x5 spacing came about because I wanted to have lots of varieties and
> also I spent some time in the Napa Valley looking at vineyards and saw
> some new ones going in at even closer spacing (4x4). It worked out that in
> my 50' x 150' area I could do 10 rows of 33 plants. So I have 1 of
> chardonnay, 2 of cab Sauv, 1.5 of cab franc, 1.5 of merlot, 2 of pinot
> noir, 1 of pinot gris, 1 of gervurtz.
>
> About the only problem has been frost damage, mostly in the fall, but some
> in the spring as well. The hardest hit has been Cab sauv which mostly got
> froze to the ground with a 13 degree night November 1, 2002. They are the
> latest, and they had not gone completely dormant. Only a few of the 66
> plants actually died, and i should have about 75% of a crop this year.
> This year I will install an overhead sprinkling system governed by a
> thermostat which will turn it on on cold nights during the critical
> periods when dormancy is not complete and in the spring after bud break.
> I saw some of the lyre systems in the Napa valley, and it does seem that
> the
> new vinyards are going either close spacing or lyre. (Just my amateur
> observation).
> How do you prune to " one counting bud
> spurs"? I don't know all the lingo of the trade yet!

One counting bud is the first bud on a cane after the basal bud. It is
generally the first fruiting bud since the basal bud is usually not fruit
producing.


>
>
> "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Darwin Vander Stelt wrote:
>>
>> > My experience with the 2003 harvest has really brought home to me the
>> > importance of limiting the production if you want quality wine. My
>> > hobby vinyard had about 250 vines producing last year, I use close
>> > spacing, 4
> x
>> > 5, and I fed the birds at least half the grapes. I still made 120 gals
> of
>> > wine! Compared to the year before when I thinned much more agressively,
>> > the wine is tasteless and watery. There are no off flavors, no evident
>> > cellar problems, just plain old watery wine. I bought bird netting this
>> > year and am really cutting the crop back to maybe half of what we had
> last
>> > year. It was
>> > a lesson I'll never forget! You can read it in a book but it doesn't
>> > really
>> > make an impact like tasting a barrel of cab franc/merlot that tastes
> like
>> > its maybe 1/3 chardonnay with some water added! So my advice is plant
>> > some extra, buy bird netting, and severely limit the yields.
>>
>> Darwin, where do you live? 2003 in the Mid Atlantic was a Horrible year
> for
>> grapes. 4 x 5 is fairly close spacing. Do you use divided canopy
>> trellising? I switched from VSP to the Lyre and prune to one counting
>> bud
>> spurs. The vines are loving it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "William Frazier" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> kenny wrote "Thanks for the information I will set down and work out
> how
>> >> much I think I will really need I was a little aggressive with the
> amount
>> > of
>> >> wine I need in a year probably 50 gallons will be more in the balll
> park.
>> >> that is with putting 1/2 up to age for an extended time."
>> >>
>> >> Kenny - The old suggestion of 1 gallon wine per vine is a good
>> >> ballpark
>> >> figure. But don't let that stop you from planting several hundred
> vines
>> > if
>> >> you have the room and the interest. With lots of vines you can limit
> the
>> >> clusters of grapes per vine and increase the quality of your harvest.
>> > Also,
>> >> you will have bad weather some years and if you have lots of vines you
>> >> may
>> >> still have enough grapes for your wine. And, you may end up selling
> part
>> > of
>> >> your harvest to offset the cost of chemicals, fertilizer, etc. I
>> >> would leave 10 feet between rows...makes it much easier to drive the
>> >> tractor
>> >> through the vineyard to spray fungicide and insecticide. This farming
>> >> you know.
>> >>
>> >> Bill Frazier
>> >> Olathe, Kansas
>> >>
>> >>
>>