"bob" > wrote in message
om...
> Lum,
> Are you saying that you would fine out the bitterness in whites
> immediately without letting age try to do it?? Isn't most young wine
> somewhat astringent anyway? You don't let the wine bulk age first
> before you start fining?

Hi Bob,
I didn't mean to imply _when_ fining should be done. My intent was to list
the preferred order of fining operations when multiple fining treatments are
needed. For example.... bentonite is used to remove excess protein.
Gelatin is protein. So fining with bentonite and _then_ fining with gelatin
makes little sense.

> Do you always cold stabilize right after
> fermentation and what about MLF, do you let that finish if you making
> a chardonnay, for example?

Yes. Treating for hydrogen sulfide should be done as soon as possible, but
most of the other fining treatments are best done late in the winemaking
process. Sorry about the confusion.

> On another note, if I was making a fruity wine would the sequence be
> fermentation, sulfite to stop MLF, fine then cold stablize?

If I were making a "fruity" Chardonnay, I would (1) ferment to dryness, (2)
add SO2, (3) do nothing except stir the lees and maintain SO2 for ~90 days
(many people prefer to rack off the yeast lees much earlier but I think the
improved mouth feel and the lighter color are more important than the small
loss in fruit), (4) fine with bentonite and immediately start cold
stabilization, (5) rack off the Bentonite lees, (6) bottle using a tight pad
filter after a few weeks.

Please note that "cold stabilization" is really only applicable to wines
containing large amounts of tartaric acid (wines made from grapes).

Regards,
lum

> > "Lum" > wrote in message
>...
> > "MOhar871" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > my wine, as i mentioned before, is in the garage as we speak. i was
> > planning on
> > > leaving it out here for a few days then bringing it in, and before
> > bottling
> > > which will be in late jan or in feb, degas it then fine it. but from
what
> > i
> > > have heard,,everybody else seems to add the betonite BEFORE
> > coldstabilizing
> > > it?!?!? so, am i doing this backwards or does it not matter too much.
> > > currently we are in the 30's here where i live, by mid week we will be
in
> > the
> > > teens and 20s so my bottles will be coming in very soon, dopnt know id
i
> > got
> > > rid of any tartaric acid or not so perhaps this whole thing was a
waste of
> > time
> > > ...any thoughts out there? thansk bunch
> >
> > Here are some thoughts.
> >
> > Sometimes a new wine will have several defects, and it will be obvious
to
> > the winemaker that multiple fining treatments will be needed. In
general,
> > fining operations are done in the following sequence. (1) Treat any
hydrogen
> > sulfide problems with copper sulfate as soon as fermentation is done.
(2)
> > Cold stabilize the wine to remove potassium bitartrate. Chilling also
helps
> > clean up the wine, and it reduces the microbe population. (3) Use
protein
> > materials (gelatin, casein, Isinglass, egg whites, etc.) to fine the
wine
> > for astringency, clarity or color problems. (4) Fine with bentonite to
> > remove excess protein and make white and blush wines hot stabile. The
> > bentonite fining will help remove any left over protein material, and it
may
> > also improve wine clarity. But, small wineries often depart from the
> > sequence given above to reduce handling. They fine their white and
blush
> > wines with bentonite and then immediately cold stabilize the wine.
During
> > cold stabilization, the soft bentonite lees are compacted by the
tartrate
> > crystals, and the compacted lees make racking much easier.