On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:13:10 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:52:58 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>>And IMHO, listening to advice from Janet Bostwick about bread baking
>>will do you even better than reading Reinhart...and that is "The Bread
>>Baker's Apprentice," by the way.
>>
>>Boron
>
>Boron, thank you for saying that, it was kind of you. But I respect
>your knowledge and hands on expertise and am in awe of your 'feel' for
>the dough.

Our mutual admiration society, madam.
>
>I can't imagine what would make Chemiker get small crumb results when
>he uses a mixer. I can only think that maybe he is making too dry a
>dough in the mixer just because he doesn't see the dough clear the
>bowl the way he thinks it should and keeps on adding flour? Unless he
>is handling too much/too roughly after rise .
>Janet US

Indeed. It is decent hydration, accurate proofing and careful shaping
and handling that makes for the holiest of breads.

Stretch and fold, hand kneading or mixer, preferment, straight yeast,
or sourdough can any and all lead to a good textured loaf if the other
"rules" are followed.

Even NO kneading can lead to a nice holey texture.

Boron