On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:52:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
>snip
> I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>>
>snip
>
>
>I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
>the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
>Janet US

Looks like your using the direct(1 step) method. I make a poolish, as
I said, the day before and let it mature in the fridge overnight. When
I add it to the main mix of dough, I do not knead the two at all, but
merely fold one into the other by hand and allow to rise. Then, rather
than kneading and breaking up the formed bubbles, I gently stretch the
dough, fold it over itself in layers and lay it (covered) on a loaf
form covered with parchment paper. This way nickel- and quarter-sized
holes are easy to obtain. For details, see:

The Breadmaker's Apprentice, p 135 et seq. entitled "Ciabatta"

The same technique works well for Baguettes and the like, and the
poolish method develops a light sour-dough like flavor that is
excellent. No direct method I know of (except for adding vinegar to
the dough) develops the flavor like the 2-step method, starting with a
mature poolish or biga. Hope this explains it.

Alex