On 12/05/2011 1:22 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> > wrote
>>>>
>>>> Ah... Train! Something we don't have here! Yes some big cities have
>>>> things like that. But not here. If you don't live in the city proper
>>>> (Seattle) you are pretty much screwed if you need public transportation.
>>>> In some areas you can take a bus and get to the city and back. But in
>>>> some cases there is no bus on Sunday and if you are taking a bus after
>>>> hours, forget it.
>>>
>>> Then it may be time to do something to correct those problems. We once
>>> had all the public transport other countries have, but we ripped it out in
>>> favor of cars, ever bigger, that use too much energy for the modern
>>> situation. It can't last forever, right? So spend the money to fix the
>>> situation which will also goose the economy.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If is was only so simple. The way our country has grown in the past 50
>> years, it is probably impossible to build a sensible train line now.
>> Perhaps over 25 to 50 years, you could fix some of the problem, but not all.
>> One end is easier. You can put in a commuter line to the cities and build
>> stations (collection points) so you can drive a few miles to them and train
>> to the city. The problem comes in the other sectors with industrial parks
>> sprawled out over many miles and not enough people to every justify a rail
>> line.
>>
>> There are some lines being revived, and busways being built, but it is not
>> enough to make drastic reductions in driving.
>>
>> Carpools help too, but they have not taken off as you'd expect. One reason
>> is practicality, but a big reason is people don't want to give up their
>> independence, no matter how inefficient.
>>
>>
>
> Carpools and vanpools have the significant drawback that they are only
> viable for those who live very simple lives - get up, go to work, go
> home, go to sleep - for 95% of the population it's more like - get up,
> go to work, get out of work early or get stuck at work late, go
> shopping, go to entertainment, kids activities, etc. and eventually go
> home. This is why carpools and vanpools will never be more than a tiny
> percentage of commuting.
>
> The same issue applies to busses and trains as well to a lesser extent.
> If the busses or trains run frequently enough to be convenient for the
> bulk of the population who has variable schedules, then they operate at
> a huge loss with few riders on any given run. If they operate
> infrequently enough to build ridership and improve efficiency then they
> are too inconvenient and people will defer to using their own vehicle
> rather than waste an hour waiting for the next bus/train.
>
> Further, when a person's activities require transporting more than a
> couple bags, be it luggage, sports gear, groceries or general shopping,
> people will again defer to their own vehicle rather than try to manage
> such cargo on public transit. For nearly anyone in a single family
> house, the cargo needs nearly always exceed what public transit can
> handle so public transit can never be viable for anything but work
> commuting, and again with the scheduling issues it often isn't viable
> for that either.

Remove the family car from people's lives and public transport becomes a
possibility. Recent cities in the US were designed around the car and
urban sprawl. That needs to change before the pain will ease.

I see people in my suburb commuting to the city 15 km distant every day
by bicycle, rain or shine. Some ride up to twice that distance. Urban
planners are adding cycleways to accommodate the demand.

Krypsis