On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 03:01:46 -0800 (PST), Rupert >
wrote:

>On Feb 24, 11:25*am, dh@. wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:20:28 GMT, and/orwww.mantra.com/jai
>>
>> (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
>> >Chapter 43: T he Meat-Free Life
>>
>> * Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>> to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
>> in order to be successful:
>>
>> tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
>> filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
>> insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
>> heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
>> gelatin capsules, *adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
>> plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
>> wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings
>>
>> * * The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> being vegan.
>> * * From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products.
>
>It seems to me that what you want to say is that if I am interested in
>minimising the amount of suffering and premature death for nonhuman
>animals caused per serving of the food I buy, I would be better off
>going with grass-raised beef than soy or rice products. Can you
>substantiate this?

You can do it, so you do it and I'll try to add to what you come up with.

>Where exactly can I buy beef that really is
>completely "grass-raised"?

I feel sure there are places on the internet, but I would very much suggest
you go somewhere and ask a farmer. If you could open your mind and then go and
discuss it with a farmer, it could very well change your life for the better and
make you a much better person too if you would do it with the right attitude.
Here is one example of how it could go:

You know of or find a place where there are beef cattle grazing, and find the
farmer or someone who tells you how to get in touch with him. You do get in
touch with him, and at that point you will actually be talking to some who
raises beef cattle. You tell him you're an ethical veg*n and that someone you
consider to be a fool keeps encouraging people to consider things on the
internet that you don't want to even believe, much less apply to your way of
thinking. But you are trying to be open minded and you were wondering if he
would be willing to help you figure out if this fool actually has any valid
point(s) or not, and if so could the farmer tell you how you might be able to
get some grass raised beef in the area. The farmer almost certainly would be
able to suggest something, even if it's just to put you in touch with a local
butcher or slaughterhouse. From there you could find and contact the actual
farmer you're interested in, and almost certainly he would let you come by and
see his operation, and see how the cattle live, and then you would be in a
somewhat decent position to evaluate realistically. Really that's the only way,
so it would be better for you to take that approach than to just order some off
the internet. It would be AFTER you do the actual research yourself that you
either come to the same conclusion I did after doing it myself, or not. If you
do, THEN would be the time to consider other grass raises sources that are
impractical for you to visit, unless you really like the farm where you learn to
appreciate the animals and you would rather make your contribution to that one
instead of a different one. And while you're there and doing that you could
probably learn where to get true free range eggs, and grass raised dairy, and
vegetables grown in more of a garden style than an indubrial farm machinery
style. It could change your life for the better if you can go in with an open
mind and a learning attitude....

>How many collateral deaths do you think it
>takes to make a pound of tofu?

It would depend on the area. For example a field with woods or pasture
around it in most cases will have more deaths than one that's surrounded by
housing developments or something like that, or desert, because there won't be
as much wildlife available to move into the fields to begin with if it's a
fairly isolated habitat. There are other things too of course, but that's one to
help you think about it. Also remember that with rice it's different in that a
lot of life is brought into the fields by the water. So even if 50% are killed
instead of didderot's estimated 20%, the new water will bring in a new batch the
next time the fields are flooded. Stuff like that.