In news:rec.food.cooking, "Pete C." > posted on Fri,
26 Nov 2010 19:21:22 -0600 the following:

> Damaeus wrote:
>
> > In news:rec.food.cooking, "Pete C." > posted on Thu,
> > 25 Nov 2010 19:48:55 -0600 the following:
> >
> > > Water bath??? For a cheesecake??? I've never heard of that in any
> > > cheesecake recipe, even the screwy ones that use a crust. Are you baking
> > > cheesecake or a creme brulee???
> >
> > Does a creme brulee have a crust?
>
> I've certainly never heard of a creme brulee with a crust, normally it
> is cooked and served in a ramekin and of course had the caramelized
> sugar crust added to the top before serving.

I wasn't asking that question seriously. I just found it odd that you'd
ask me if I was making creme brulee since I already said I was making a
cheesecake with a crust.

This reminds me of that movie, The Million Dollar Duck. Sandy Duncan's
character was cooking something out of a cookbook, and every time she
turned her back to add more ingredients to the food, a fan nearby would
blow the cookbook to a different page, messing up the recipe.

> > I've never had a cheesecake without a
> > crust, or I'd call it cheesecake pudding.
>
> I'm not sure why you'd call it that, pretty much any cheesecake recipe
> has a relatively firm texture, vs. puddings which have a very soft
> texture.

/sigh, yes I know that. Maybe it's a custard-style pudding. If Yoplait
can get away with making a yogurt you can slice with a knife, can't I make
cheesecake pudding you can slice with a knife?

> > And I'm not talking about some Keebler pie crust in a pan. I'm
> > talking about the layer of graham cracker crumbs and butter that is
> > pressed into the bottom of the springform pan that gives the
> > cheesecake some kind of base to sit on.
>
> Cheesecake doesn't need a base to sit on, it has a firm enough texture
> to stand on it's own.

I know. I just thought maybe a crust, while optional, was accepted as
part of cheesecake.

> > I would probably like a cheesecake without a crust,
>
> I expect you would, it lets you focus on the flavor of the cheesecake
> without a crust to distract.

Sometimes I like pizza without crust so I can focus on the taste of the
toppings without a crust to distract, but I'm not sure I'd call it pizza
if it didn't have a crust. I think that might be a casserole. Still, I'm
not offended by the idea of cheesecake still being called "cheesecake"
even without a crust.

Hmmm... I wonder what it would be like if I used 3/4 cup of heavy cream
instead of 3/4 cup of milk in the cheesecake.

> > however, but just because the one I
> > made has a crust, I don't consider it screwy, bad, wrong, evil or sinful.
>
> I do

I'm tempted to surprise them with a crustless cheesecake. Honestly when I
eat cheesecake, sometimes I like to slice away the crust and eat just the
cream cheese part. I noticed my friend's mom... She had an amount toward
the end of her slice that would make two bites. She sliced away the
crust, ate that, then saved a crustless hunk for her last bite. If she
thinks like I do, she wanted her last bite to be the best one. I think a
crustless cheesecake might go over quite well.

> > The cheesecake I baked for Thanksgiving was my second using this
> > recipe. It didn't call for a water bath, but some of the comments
> > under the recipe did call for one. Plus a discussion I had over
> > instant messaging has become clearer now. A water bath will keep the
> > sides of the springform pan from exceeding 212 degrees. That will
> > result in a cheesecake which has the same creaminess on the sides as
> > it has in the center.
>
> That would be the theory for a water bath, and is why one is used for
> creme brulee.

I'm going to make creme brulee tonight.

> > And while the cheesecake I brought to dinner made everyone moan in
> > ecstasy like no other food that was on the table, I noticed a
> > difference in texture as I ate toward the outside edge of the
> > cheesecake. The center was so creamy that it had no texture at all
> > that my tongue could detect, but the outside edge did have a texture.
>
> It sounds like it didn't quite get evenly done. What was the oven temp,
> and what temp was the water bath?

I didn't use a water bath, and that's why I posted about the difference in
texture between the center and the outside edge. My third cheesecake will
be made in a water bath. My friend's mom put in an order for a cheesecake
for Christmas. Anyway, I baked it at 350 degrees for an hour, then turned
the oven off without closing the door and left it there for eight hours. I
then took it out of the oven and chilled it in the fridge for the next
fourteen hours.

I took a picture of it after it had been setting up for five hours in the
cooling oven. Notice there are no cracks in it. There were no cracks
after eight hours, and no cracks after chilling for fourteen hours:

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/i...cheesecake.jpg

I did put a pan of water in the oven on the bottom rack. I used the same
method for the first attempt at this cheesecake and had a very small crack
on each side. I think the added moisture from the steam of the lower pan
kept the cracks from forming at all this time. Next time I'll put the pan
directly into the water bath.

> > It wasn't gross or inedible or anything, but there *was* a texture and
> > I didn't like the mouth feel of the outside inch of cheesecake as much
> > as the center.
>
> The cheesecake I bake has a definite texture and "crumb" to it since it
> contains ricotta cheese. That texture is one of the features I like
> about the recipe vs. something like NY style which I find is often
> rather "gluey".

Gluey is the adjective I'd use to describe the cheesecake made with a
Jell-O cheesecake kit.

> Since I don't use a water bath, the outside gets a bit more done which
> intensifies the "crumb" and flavor, something I find very appealing.

I found that the outside inch of mine made me think it was about 80%
cheesecake, 20% bread pudding. I don't find that texture appealing. I
want the edge to be exactly like the center; the water bath should
accomplish that.

> > A water bath is supposed to keep the outside edge as creamy as the
> > center where it was absolutely perfect.
>
> Sounds like you just need to adjust the balance between water bath
> starting temp and oven temp to find the point where everything is baked
> to the same point when it's done.

Yes, on my third attempt, I should get cheesecake perfection because (a) I
will use a water bath, and (b) I already planned to pour the water boiling
hot, straight off the pot on the stove into the pan holding the springform
pan. I may need to get another pan, come to think of it, because I don't
think I have one deep enough to hold a springform pan unless I use one of
the big soup-type pots I'd use on the stove.

Damaeus