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isw

In article
>,
Bryan > wrote:

> On Nov 11, 11:19*pm, isw > wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *"Kent" > wrote:
> > > "isw" > wrote in message
> > > ]...
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "Kent" > wrote:
> >
> > > >> "isw" > wrote in message
> > > >> ]...
> > > >> > In article om>,
> > > >> > "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:
> >
> > > >> >> George wrote:
> >
> > > >> >> >>>>http://www.cookingforgeeks.com/blog/...diy-sous-vide/
> >
> > > >> >> >>>> For those of you who are 'tinker' inclined.
> >
> > > >> >> >>> Someone should make a unit that drops into a standard cooler
> > > >> >> >>> (Igloo,
> > > >> >> >>> Coleman, etc.). *One could do wonderful things with those
> > > >> >> >>> inexpensive
> > > >> >> >>> cryovaced USDA Select beef tenderloins, and other even cheaper
> > > >> >> >>> cuts.
> > > >> >> >>> We have a local store that sells those Select subprimals. *I
> > > >> >> >>> should
> > > >> >> >>> suggest to them that they consider investing in a commercial
> > > >> >> >>> sous
> > > >> >> >>> vide
> > > >> >> >>> cooker.
> >
> > > >> >> >> Obviously I'm missing something here. *If you take a cheap,
> > > >> >> >> tough
> > > >> >> >> piece
> > > >> >> >> of meat, and cook it to rare all the way through, won't you end
> > > >> >> >> up
> > > >> >> >> with
> > > >> >> >> a rare, cheap, tough piece of meat?
> >
> > > >> >> > You just process the tougher cuts at a lower temp for a longer
> > > >> >> > time
> > > >> >> > (>
> > > >> >> > 24
> > > >> >> > hours). That breaks down the connective tissue and turns the
> > > >> >> > collagen
> > > >> >> > into
> > > >> >> > gelatin similar to braising only much better. So you could get
> > > >> >> > the
> > > >> >> > great
> > > >> >> > beefy taste of say chuck and have it tender but not almost
> > > >> >> > flavorless
> > > >> >> > like
> > > >> >> > a filet.
> >
> > > >> >> There are plenty of tough cuts which don't *have* the connective
> > > >> >> tissue
> > > >> >> you
> > > >> >> mention. Cooking them for a long period of time just makes them
> > > >> >> dry,
> > > >> >> since
> > > >> >> the proteins contract and drive the water out.
> >
> > > >> > Not if you keep the temperature low enough (and sous-vide does). If
> > > >> > proteins don't contract at 131 F in one minute (as, say, when you
> > > >> > pull
> > > >> > that rare steak from the pan), then they won't contract after 24
> > > >> > hours
> > > >> > at that same temperature -- the denaturing of proteins is
> > > >> > temperature
> > > >> > dependent, but not time dependent. But the collagen (or some of it)
> > > >> > *will* break down. Give it a try.
> >
> > > >> > Isaac
> >
> > > >> We did something like this with eye of round. *There was an article in
> > > >> Cooks
> > > >> Illustrated some time ago about this. It isn't sous vide, since the
> > > >> meat
> > > >> is
> > > >> not under vacuum and submerged.
> >
> > > > Insofar as home-cooking sous vide is concerned, I don't think the
> > > > "vacuum" part is very important. The main points are to cook in a
> > > > liquid, which conducts heat far better than air, and to isolate the
> > > > product from the cooking liquid so the flavor doesn't get diluted.
> >
> > > > Restaurant sous vide cooking (cook, flash chill, rewarm when an order
> > > > comes in) is a very different thing.
> >
> > > > Isaac
> >
> > > I thought as you that the vacuum part isn't important. I put a piece of
> > > sirloin into a ziplock bag, and sucked out the air. I warmed it very very
> > > slowly to 130F in water. It didn't work. The air spaces between the
> > > plastic
> > > and the meat kept the meat from cooking.
> >
> > Well, that's odd, because that's exactly what I did -- using "ZipLok"
> > freezer bags and the little pump they provide for them. Worked fine.
> >
> > And I've read that *as long as you get rid of air bubbles*, you don't
> > even need the vacuum. I've seen descriptions of that method on line.
> > Basically, you submerge the bag slowly, and let the water push the air
> > up and out.
> >
> > But if your description describes what you actually did: "warmed it very
> > very slowly to 130F in water", that's not sous vide. You need to put the
> > meat in water that's already at 130 F (or whatever), and keep it at that
> > temperature for quite a while -- say an hour or more. Lots more (24-48
> > hours) if you're wanting to tenderize a tough cut.
>
> True, and the reason to keep the water circulating is so you can bring
> the meat up to that temperature as quickly as possible without
> bringing the surface of the meat to a higher temperature. It's kind
> of like a convection oven. Would you send me a supplies/sources list
> and plans? John K. and I want to build one.

I will gladly send you what I have, but I should warn you, it's more of
an "idea starting point" than a finished item. I'm a retired
physicist/engineer, and I know how to do the full-tilt-boogie of product
documentation, but I rarely do that for personal hacks.

Isaac