>>Let me ask you this. A Rielsing is 13% alcohol and has a residual sugar of
>>2%. That means the grape needed to be harvested above 25-26 brix, to get
>>these numbers. And in Germany, Im assuming the grapes had to hang a really
>>long time to get this high so you know the PH is through the roof.

snip rest of Vincent's reply

>Earlier I said I was going to withdraw from this thread, but I simply
>couldn't let the above statements go unchallenged. The numbers quoted
>are fairly typical for a Columbia Valley (Washington State, USA)
>Johannisberg Riesling. Keep in mind that vineyards there are about 46
>degrees N, compared with about 50 in, say, the Mosel. Thus grapes
>ripen in the former with a much higher sugar level than in the latter.
>(I'm not claiming either is better than the other; just that they are
>different.) While I don't doubt that acid is sometimes added to such
>wines, I can state categorically that sometimes it is not. As far as
>firm figures as to how often it is done versus how often it is not, I
>have no clue and doubt that anyone else does either. But my point is
>that it is not ALWAYS necessary as has been claimed here.
>
>Vino

Vino

I must admit that I am probably one of the least knowledgeable about winemaking
here, but earlier, I was objecting to the insinuation that all wines would be
13% alcohol. The off-dry, sweet and dessert wines of Germany come in at 10%
alcohol and under. (I hope Vincent is aware of this.) The fermentation is
stopped early, and the wines have residual sugar and high acid. Someone could
clarify for me the typical brix (sweetness) of the must for the German
Kabinetts and Spatlesen.

Your point about Washington state and ripeness compared to Germany is well
taken. I believe that the WA off dry Rieslings (eg Ch. St. Michelle, Hogue)
have alcohol levels of 12 or more.

One minor observation I make about latitute however... New York's Finger Lakes
has higher acid wines than those of Washington, and it lies at 43 degrees, N
(south of Washington). The cool maritime climate promotes a higher acidity and
much less ripening than arid eastern WA.

But aside from that minor issue, your points are well taken.

So, a valid question is... What is the brix of a typical German off dry
Riesling? And what is the great destoyer of acid? Is it is high brix and high
alcohol, as Vincent suggests? Is it the rate of ripening (cool vs. warm
climate)?

If anyone, including Vincent, can answer my questions, I think some of these
issues re acidity may be clarified.

Thanks

Tom Schellberg