On Nov 3, 11:35*am, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:31 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Nov 2, 12:17*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:19:58 -0800 (PST), "Dominic T."
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >On Oct 31, 8:21*pm, Prof Wonmug > wrote:
> >> >> Would you care to suggest a few teas from Teaspring? I haven't had
> >> >> much luck with blacks so far, so I think I'll concentrate on greens
> >> >> and oolongs. Maybe three greens and three oolongs. Specific teas would
> >> >> be great.
>
> >> >> If it helps, I tend to like milder flavors. I have a strong aversion
> >> >> for bitter. I cannot tolerate coffee or beer. I prefer red wine to
> >> >> white, but not much of either, and fish or chicken to red meat (so I
> >> >> end up drinking red wine with fish).
>
> >> >> If you suggest some, I'll try them and report back.
>
> >> >> BTW: You keep talking about stale tea. I looked at a dozen teas on
> >> >> Teaspring and all of them said they were harvested in 2008 to 2006. I
> >> >> would expect to consume a tea in a year or so.
>
> >> >I really wanted to stay away from naming specific teas to allow for
> >> >each individual to just go with what they were drawn to naturally
>
> >> That's like a novice carpenter asking a journeyman what tools they
> >> should buy for a starter set. The journeyman says, "Well, you'll need
> >> a hammer, a drill, a set of screwdrivers, a level, etc..." The novice
> >> goes to the hardware store and is overwhelmed by the choices for each
> >> tool. He goes back to the journeyman and says, "They had 50 hammers,
> >> 30 drills, hundreds of screwdrivers, etc. Can you recommend a specific
> >> tool for the type of carpentry I want to learn to do?" The journeyman
> >> says, "I want you to experience the journey, so just buy whatever you
> >> are drawn to."
>
> >> >within those categories, but since you asked I'll say that of their
> >> >greens I enjoy (and would fit your likes): Bi Lo Chun, Long Jing,
> >> >Jasmine Pearls, and Zhu Ye Qing. As well as the Huo Shan Huang Ya I
> >> >mentioned earlier which is a yellow tea, but wonderful and mild and
> >> >sweet and like a green. I have tried and not liked teaspring's Tai
> >> >Ping Hou Kui and the Huang Shan Mao Feng. Again, I think it is just
> >> >the site that doesn't always get updated because I have had some very
> >> >fresh teas from them... I have had one order of bi lo chun and one
> >> >order of Huo Shan Huang Ya that were not very fresh... but those were
> >> >two instances in over 10+ orders.
>
> >> >My wife loves Teaspring's Shui Xian, I find it a little lacking but
> >> >still a very good example. The Yunnan Gold is good, malty and a little
> >> >sweet. The Long Jing Huang Pao is my favorite black tea from them, but
> >> >expensive and it is an odd flavor reminiscent of over-ripe funky
> >> >fruit... so that may not be for everyone. I can't say how their Keemun
> >> >is because I have not ordered that from them. Same for the flowery/
> >> >green oolong... they aren't a favorite of mine so I don't regularly
> >> >order them at all. Most of the last ones I had were from Stephane
> >> >Erler's Tea Masters Blog, and while they were super quality, I still
> >> >didn't find much to like.
>
> >> >Hopefully that helps (I do know I just re-mentioned many of the names
> >> >from the list, but I don't want to steer you too much) If Teaspring
> >> >offers more than one in any of those mentioned, you can be safe going
> >> >with the least expensive of each category, or splurge if something
> >> >catches your eye. It is an individual process and the 10 teas listed
> >> >really are just a selection of teas that cover most of the specific
> >> >flavors found in tea in the least number of teas possible.
>
> >> Thanks for the specific recommendations. Very helpful. I appreciate
> >> it.
>
> >> Unfortunately, the TeaSpring website was a complete disaster. It is
> >> riddled with bugs. I created an account and started adding teas to my
> >> shopping cart. At some point, it created a second shopping cart, so
> >> that I had teas in two places. Sometimes I would see one cart,
> >> sometimes the other.
>
> >> After I got all of the teas in one cart, I tried to checkout. I was
> >> presented with the new user screen. I had to log in again.
>
> >> When I finally got all of the information entered and clicked Make
> >> Payment, I was told that my credit card was rejected. I use that card
> >> all the time. It's perfectly good.
>
> >> Backing up, I discovered that the program did not fill in my compelte
> >> address, even though I provided all of that information when I created
> >> my account. I reentered it manually, but the credit card was rejected
> >> again.
>
> >> This website is not ready for prime time.
>
> >> Do you have another vendor to recommend? Maybe one with a working
> >> website?
>
> >Honestly I have never had such issues with their website... what
> >browser are you using. I order all the time with Firefox. Really there
> >is no good alternative for Chinese teas of the level of quality for
> >the price. I promise you, I trusted Daniel enough that the tea for my
> >wedding came from him... and was outstanding.
>
> >I understand your comment on the journeyman/hammer analogy... but just
> >the same, I guarantee the tools you pick out day one (even if handed
> >an exact list) will not be the tools you are using in your second
> >year. You will have different likes/dislikes/feel/looks/etc. than even
> >a "master" carpenter and those will change and transform over time.
>
> Of course. Beginners have different needs than experts. But that is
> not my point.
>
> >The reason I say to go with your gut when there is a choice to be
> >made, is that within those categories the variance is fairly subtle,
> >so if one leaps out at you for some reason (shape, color, price,
> >whatever) it will be fine, and the fact that *you* had some connection
> >with it instead of just picking up a shopping list verbatim from
> >someone else adds some personal attachment that otherwise wouldn't be
> >there.
>
> A beginner's gut is often useless and sometimes dangerous. A shopping
> list can be a tremendous aid.
>
> >When you really define what you like and don't like then we can
> >offer more exact reference points and teas to shoot for. Just like the
> >blind choice of a framing hammer, a ball peen, and a waffle head of a
> >novice will all pound a nail into a board.
>
> >It's all about personal growth and experience and your own journey, I
> >am not trying to take you down a pre-recorded tourist trap attraction
> >with stops at A, B, and C. I don't herd well, and I would never herd
> >someone else. My journey had many years of terrible tea and no outside
> >help and a lot of disappointment and floundering with very few magical
> >moments, many would have given up, I'm just stubborn and persisted.
>
> It almost sounds like you want everyone to suffer as you did. My
> mother used to say that if it was good enough for her it was good
> enough for me. Nevermind that she was raised in the horse and buggy
> days.
>
> >Later on as I wanted a better aha! to boo! ratio and still didn't have
> >a guide or help, I would turn to reading up on the particular area the
> >tea came from and tried to get a handle on the history and providence
> >which would often result in if even still a mediocre cup a cup that I
> >understood and "felt" more which added a bit to the taste in the mind.
>
> I find it amusing that you are protecting me from you. Did you have a
> bad experience with nuns in your youth? I don't herd well, either, as
> you might have guessed. I asked which hammer to buy. I am perfectly
> capable of looking at the other hammers and maybe buying another one
> that "catches me eye". But I will have the exact hammer recommended by
> a master carpenter. If the one that "caught my eye" doesn't work so
> well, I'll have the right one handy to compare and learn. Otherwise, I
> go back to the store and see what else "catches my ignorant eye" or
> just give up. I really don't want to learn by trial and error when
> perfectly good (and, apparently, hard-earned) expertise is available.

I think you are seeing this all far more adversarial than it is in
reality. If you notice I've typed pages of information here for you
and spent a lot of time compiling the initial list... I have nothing
to gain. I already enjoy tea, I know much of what I like, I get no
commission from teaspring or Uptons. I spend all this time and effort
in the hopes of helping others like yourself, and have for a number of
years.

I am saving you the failures and much of the trials by giving you 10
specific teas/categories to start with. I have been telling you that
as long as you buy any one tea in each of those categories you will be
miles ahead from someone who is just left to their own devices. If
there was some true pronounced difference or specific need then I'd
name specific teas, there isn't. In these categories they all more or
less are the same with subtle differences or characteristics. If you
went with Teaspring and ordered samples of the cheapest tea in each of
these 10 categories regardless of what it was, you will end up
perfectly fine and with a very good understanding of the differences.
If in one particular category something catches your eye or a
description/photo looks appealing... go for it. That's all I'm
saying.

At some point you either have to trust me in my effort to help, not
just you but anyone who would read my list, and trust that no matter
what you pick it won't make a groundbreaking difference even totally
blind... or don't. I'm telling you my only goal is to help, and to
save time, frustration, and money... not mine, yours. Not everything
is black and white and rigid and scientific, just let go a bit and
relax and enjoy the trip. There's no finish line, there is no
destination, it's just tea.

- Dominic