Thanks - sometimes I forget being teutophone <giggle>.
However, any reference to Pinot (of any color) earlier than the late 14th
century is, I fear, largely hypothetical. The earliest dokucemntation of
pinot is if I have read this correctly from the court of Philip the Bold,
the first Valois duke of Burgundy, and more or less contemporary with the
wellknown valediction of the "evil and disloyal" Gamay, from the same duke.
Btw, here the claim is that the variety was found in Western Hungary in the
13th century - this is quite possible, but I would like some reference to
contemporary documents (e g, chronicles from some of the Cistercian
monasteries, which are, of course, very much historical /the monasteries,
not the putative documents/).

The lack of mention of Charles IV is refreshing.

I will have to look into your reference, it is very interesting. Thank you
very much!

Cheers

Nils

"Anders Tørneskog" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> There are other things than Google - www.wein-plus.de, for instance, where
> I found the following:
>
> Im Burgund wuchs die Rebe früher oft inmitten von Pinot Noir auf, von dem
> sie ohne die Trauben nicht unterschieden werden kann. In Niederösterreich
> und Westungarn wurde sie bereits im 13. Jahrhundert von
> Zisterzienser-Mönchen angebaut, woher sich auch der Name "Grauer Mönch"
> ableitet. Diese standen in direkter Verbindung mit ihren Mutterklöstern im
> Burgund. In Südbaden wurde sie mit den Sorten Roter Traminer und Hanns
> (Hansen, Kleiner Veltliner) verwechselt (ID = A. Jung). Alle drei Sorten
> wurden bereits im Jahre 1639 unter dem Homonym Musler (Graue) bei
> Schaffhausen angebaut. Das Synonym Grauer Tokayer und die mährische
> Herkunft des Hanns und des Traminer könnten auf eine Herkunft aus
> Nordungarn oder Slowakei hinweisen.
>
> So, nothing with Charles IV here
>
> Anders
>
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> google-san-wa anata-no tomodashi-desu as I always point out ...
>> yeah, google, and a curiosity that endangers all the neighbourhood cats
>> ...
>> Seriously, I will hold a lecture on aromatic French wines next Tuesday,
>> and I always want to know more than is contained in the pensum. Besides,
>> I do know SOME organic chemistry. We were, after all, required to learn
>> the Krebs cycle (( in med school. Never had much practical value in my
>> professional life, really.
>>
>> No doubt, one of these days you will find me studying Hungarian just to
>> try to find out how, when, and why the pinot gris landed in Badacsony.
>> That is one thing I doubt I'll be able to find out using google, since
>> the matter is swamped by the recurring factoid of Charles IV having had
>> it imported in 1375.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Nils
>>
>> "Anders Tørneskog" > skrev i meddelandet
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > skrev i
>>> melding ...
>>>> >
>>>>> According to my notes, 2-phenyl ethanol, cinnamic acid, ethyl
>>>>> decanoate, phenethyl acetate and phenylacetic acid.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently also 2,5-dimethyl-4-hydroxy-3[2H]-furanone, and
>>>> 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-ene-1,4-dione , the frist being a lactone,
>>>> the second an isoprenoid. Admittedly, the first is isolated in
>>>> Slovakian brandy ...
>>> How come a shrink knows organic chemistry? Or is it Google knowledge?
>>> :-) Anders
>>>
>>
>>
>
>