Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Thu 30 Jul 2009 05:49:58a, Jean B. told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Wed 29 Jul 2009 07:57:22a, Jean B. told us...
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:59:12a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue 28 Jul 2009 05:22:07a, Jean B. told us...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun 26 Jul 2009 08:24:53p, Paul M. Cook told us...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Damaeus" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>> I accidentally posted this first to rec.food-cooking....here's a
>>>>>>>>>>> post for this group:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like biscuits now and then, and I got the itch to have some a
>>>>>>>>>>> while back when I was watching the Food Network and saw Tyler
>>>>>>>>>>> Florence's version. He shocked me when he said to use vegetable
>>>>>>>>>>> shortening, his reason being that he found that butter tends to
>>>>>>>>>>> burn, while shortening doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, here's the recipe, first of all:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/t...ce/buttermilk-
> biscu
>>>>>>>>>>> it s- re cipe2/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, I tried the recipe. I have to say they were not unedible,
>>>>>>>>>>> but nowhere near the quality of biscuits I had made using butter
>>>>>>>>>>> instead of shortening. These biscuits came out reminding me of
>>>>>>>>>>> store-bought, canned biscuits. I blame the shortening, because
>>>>>>>>>>> all shortening is, is hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated
>>>>>>>>>>> oils. I was skeptical of them for that reason alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I had normally made biscuits with plain whole milk,
> not
>>>>>>>>>>> buttermilk. We normally don't keep buttermilk in the house, but
>>>>>>>>>>> my roommate had a craving for fried chicken with buttermilk
>>>>>>>>>>> batter, so since we had some left, I made buttermilk biscuits,
>>>>>>>>>>> then buttermilk pancakes a few days later. The biscuits did
> rise
>>>>>>>>>>> nicely, however.
>>>>>>>>>>> But they turned out with a very yellow color inside, which
>>>>>>>>>>> surprised me greatly. They were quite white going in, but you'd
>>>>>>>>>>> think I'd laced them with turmeric, they came out so yellow. (I
>>>>>>>>>>> used unbleached flour.) As for the doneness, there was an even,
>>>>>>>>>>> brown crust all the way around it, that was almost cookie-like
> in
>>>>>>>>>>> texture, about a millimeter thick. I layered it as he suggested
>>>>>>>>>>> on TV, and as a result, they simply pulled apart like a
>>>>>>>>>>> biscuit-bun, no need for a knife to cut it in half.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Once I get some more flour, I'm going to try buttermilk biscuits
>>>>>>>>>>> again before it expires, using butter instead of shortening to
>>>>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What is your experience with using butter versus shortening? So
>>>>>>>>>>> far, I'm not impressed with shortening, but I may have to blame
>>>>>>>>>>> the buttermilk if using butter in the next go-around results in
>>>>>>>>>>> the same type of experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've never found butter to work well in biscuits. You get a
>>>>>>>>>> crispy rather than soft biscuit. I don't like the heavy taste
>>>>>>>>>> anyway as I put butter on the biscuits. I have always used lard
>>>>>>>>>> or vegetable shortening. Lard makes the best biscuits IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>> Lard + buttermilk + soft wheat flour (like White Lily) make the
>>>>>>>>> lightest and best biscuits.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can see I need to buy more lard. I am thinking I can use the
>>>>>>>> recipe in James Beard's American Cookery, but with those
>>>>>>>> ingredients. Yes?
>>>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Speaking of buttermilk... This is probably a stupid question, but
>>>>>>>> is it possible to find real old-fashioned buttermilk anywhere in
> the
>>>>>>>> Boston area?
>>>>>>> Most of what you'll find in any city is cultured buttermilk, but
>>>>>>> quality varies. I usually buy mine at TJ's or Sprouts. You'd
>>>>>>> probably have to find a private dairy to get the "real thing", but
>>>>>>> good quality cultured buttermilk works just fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once you have some, you can perpetuate your supply by mixing up a
>>>>>>> quart of non-fat dry milk, adding a cup of buttermilk and leaving it
>>>>>>> to set on the counter overnight, or until it clabbers. Then shake
>>>>>>> well and refrigerate. You can repeat this process indefinitely.
>>>>>>> Buttermilk used for cooking purposes can be kept refrigerated for
>>>>>>> months without spoiling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cool! Thanks. I still would like to find the old-style
>>>>>> buttermilk at least once in my lifetime.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Then you need raw milk where the cream hasn't been separated, and a
>>>>> churn. You can buy tabletop churns. You get the best of both worlds,
>>>>> fresh butter and fresh buttermilk. OTOH, if you drive out into the
>>>>> country where there are small farms that keep a few cows, they may
> make
>>>>> small quantities for themselves and might be wiling to part with some.
>>>>> Is there any Amish country within your driving distance?
>>>>>
>>>> Probably not. BUT this ties in with my growing desire to
>>>> experience milk that is more like nature intended!
>>>>
>>> Then you definitely need to buy a cow. :-)
>>>
>> Oh but wait! Last night I put a query out on the local food ng,
>> and someone informed me that Annie's, which makes butter, now has
>> buttermilk. I went to three stores and found some. The odd thing
>> is that is sounds like it is a byproduct of their butter
>> operation, but it still says "cultured buttermilk". Soooo, I have
>> the lard and the buttermilk, and will get some White Lily flour
>> today. I MAY have seen it at one of the regular supermarkets
>> around here. I know I have seen it at Williams-Sonoma, although
>> unfortunately I didn't look for it when I was there recently.
>
> Good collecting!
>
>> I wonder, too, whether one could use pastry flour? I will try the
>> WL first, though.
>
> If you use pastry flour, mix in about 1/3 all-purpose flour. Pastry flour
> is milled more finely and from an even softer wheat than White Lily.
>
>

(I am waiting for my daughter to go out before I go out looking
for WL.)

Thanks, Wayne. I have been looking at the White Lily website and
note that they say an additional 2 Tbsps WL flour should be used
per cup if subbing for AP flour.

I was also looking at recipes for biscuits, which I will compare
with my standard (from James Beard's American Cookery).

--
Jean B.